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UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

openbanking.org.uk

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Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#81

Post by ErrantX »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #79
ErrantX wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a fair criticism in part; but you are a technologist and so want unfiltered access to play with that data. For the vast majority of people that's meaningless - so to be able to share that data with companies offering new and interesting services (AIS sign up is reasonably lightweight, certainly within trivial reach of any startup) is a big step forward. I think we should be encouraging! (Or in other words; your t…

> For the vast majority of people that's meaningless Erm ... WTF?! I'm not sure how explain this as it just seems so obvious, but ... you can, like, use software that other people write on your own computer!? There is no need to have any clue whatsoever of software development nor to share your data with any third party in order to profit from open APIs. People can use Thunderbird to read and write email without any…

Thats what I mean; PSD2 has always been about B2B. GDPR is business to consumer and we should critique it to press for digital solutions that are meaningful for consumers.

As to the desktop app business; well sure but my hope is we build to this sort of thing. No harm is starting somewhere!

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#82

Post by Angostura »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #25

WTF? What is open about a system that only very few organisations can use? Imagine in the paper world, now you not only can ask the bank how much money you have, you can also authorize other companies to look at your account statements for you ... but noone got the idea that maybe you, the account holder, should be able to get a copy of the account statements? It seems we are still at the "reading and writing is for…

> What is open about a system that only very few organisations can use

I'm sorry - as a consumer, I'm going to want the most stringent checks before giving a third party direct read/write access to my bank account. The biggest criticism people have of the scheme so far is that it 'sounds like a security nightmare' and who is liable if I give someone access and they do Bad Things.

Is your criticism really that it is insufficiently open in that certification is stringent?

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#83

Post by Angostura »

insomniacity wrote: post #14
ErrantX wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to be a company. You also have to be regulated as an AISP or PISP (Account Information/Payment Initiation Service Provider). So there are some hurdles.

That is disappointing. I wonder if anyone is doing the legal analysis on what it would take to be a 'passthrough provider', who would simply wrap it up in an easier API with a simple TOS.

IT's not disapointing if you ever want consumers to actually trust the system. Even I'm not convinced about opting in yet.

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#84

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

Angostura wrote: post #82
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #25

WTF? What is open about a system that only very few organisations can use? Imagine in the paper world, now you not only can ask the bank how much money you have, you can also authorize other companies to look at your account statements for you ... but noone got the idea that maybe you, the account holder, should be able to get a copy of the account statements? It seems we are still at the "reading and writing is for…

> What is open about a system that only very few organisations can use I'm sorry - as a consumer, I'm going to want the most stringent checks before giving a third party direct read/write access to my bank account. The biggest criticism people have of the scheme so far is that it 'sounds like a security nightmare' and who is liable if I give someone access and they do Bad Things. Is your criticism really that it is i…

?!

No, my criticism is that it is an interface for third parties only that locks out the first party!?

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#85

Post by mjburgess »

tjoff wrote: post #57

Why would anyone ever want to let a 3rd party company manage their bank account? I barely trust my bank yo do that... I'm afraid that some companies will try to force it upon customers as well. Starting with: "If you allow us to manage your purchase it will get even faster (oh and we get access to all of your financial info), and you also get a useless gadget!"

A bank is a third party company which manages your money.

Illegal things are illegal. It's a risk vs. convenience calculation people make, as with banks themselves.

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#86

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

ErrantX wrote: post #81
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the vast majority of people that's meaningless Erm ... WTF?! I'm not sure how explain this as it just seems so obvious, but ... you can, like, use software that other people write on your own computer!? There is no need to have any clue whatsoever of software development nor to share your data with any third party in order to profit from open APIs. People can use Thunderbird to read and write email without any…

Thats what I mean; PSD2 has always been about B2B. GDPR is business to consumer and we should critique it to press for digital solutions that are meaningful for consumers. As to the desktop app business; well sure but my hope is we build to this sort of thing. No harm is starting somewhere!

> Thats what I mean; PSD2 has always been about B2B.

Which is precisely why it is bad?!

> GDPR is business to consumer and we should critique it to press for digital solutions that are meaningful for consumers.

No, GDPR simply does not have anything to do with this. GDPR is about human rights, not about technological development. Machine readable access might still be a worthwhile goal in that area, but extending data protection to encompass the right to submit transactions to your bank via a machine readable standardized interface certainly would be a stretch.

> As to the desktop app business; well sure but my hope is we build to this sort of thing. No harm is starting somewhere!

But are we starting anywhere? Say I want to write free banking software for people who care about their privacy ... are we even the slightest bit closer to being able to do that? Or isn't this rather a step in the opposite direction in that it further cements the idea of having monks do all the reading and writing for your?

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#87

Post by 21 »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #84
Angostura wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is open about a system that only very few organisations can use I'm sorry - as a consumer, I'm going to want the most stringent checks before giving a third party direct read/write access to my bank account. The biggest criticism people have of the scheme so far is that it 'sounds like a security nightmare' and who is liable if I give someone access and they do Bad Things. Is your criticism really that it is i…

?! No, my criticism is that it is an interface for third parties only that locks out the first party!?

How many people do you think will be able to secure their access?

And what happens if their computer is hacked, the credentials stolen and the accounts emptied?

It's not hard for me to imagine developers saying, "hey, we all know computers get hacked, it is the bank's job to know when its really me versus when someone stole my API keys. What a shitty bank. I'm expecting all my money back"

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#88

Post by pmuk »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #84
Angostura wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is open about a system that only very few organisations can use I'm sorry - as a consumer, I'm going to want the most stringent checks before giving a third party direct read/write access to my bank account. The biggest criticism people have of the scheme so far is that it 'sounds like a security nightmare' and who is liable if I give someone access and they do Bad Things. Is your criticism really that it is i…

?! No, my criticism is that it is an interface for third parties only that locks out the first party!?

If you want to download your own data you can do so, to an extent, through the midata format which was launched in 2011. It lets you download the last 12 months transactions from your current accounts in a file.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-midata-vision-of-cons... https://www.hsbc.co.uk/1/2/midata-faqs https://www.santander.co.uk/uk/current-accounts/midata

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#89

Post by walshemj »

Nursie wrote: post #78
walshemj wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I ever fucking want to do that "give companies other than their bank or building society permission to securely access their accounts."

Want a better mortgage rate or a bigger loan? Let us look at the data, we may be able to give you one. Repeat for savings, insurance, whatever.

Yeh right you know those comparison sites are all pay to play TANSTAAFL as Bob Heinlein noted.

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#90

Post by zoltaan »

sleavey wrote: post #2

“Open Banking is a term that describes a secure set of technologies and standards that allow customers to give companies other than their bank or building society permission to securely access their accounts." I can't tell if this is super-useful for the end consumer, or just another way for e.g. Google to mine your data in return for some superficial benefits.

The descriptions are so vague, the high ranking beneficiaries of the system are stating so little so long over and over (sounds like using the same bullshit generator with the same parameters) that there must be very very little and uncertain benefits for the users. If they, the insiders of the system, are unable to explain it in plain and simple facts then it must have very little about clients. What I hear? More parties could access (including manipulation!?) your account. More potential source of errors and problems - and possibly malicious actions. If something goes wrong it will be more complex to figure out where the problem was. Tracking who can do what is an added complexity to managing bank matters. All above means lower security. There is a potential that if more work on the same money they will charge more - assuming not doing it for charity but for fee. There must be hell of a heck benefits, increased efficiency to balance that, eventually leaving more at the clients on the disadvantage of he money industry.... doesn't seem a realistic scenario from a money industry initiative. I see better ways to improve banking, especially UK banking - compared to Scandinavia it is in the stone age -, but not through opening up banking secrets to a lot of parties. To me it goes in the other direction. Let me be wrong eventually.
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