UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January • Hacker News Board

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#21

Post by OJFord » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 11:04 AM UTC

chirau wrote: post #16

insomniacity wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is disappointing. I wonder if anyone is doing the legal analysis on what it would take to be a 'passthrough provider', who would simply wrap it up in an easier API with a simple TOS.

Teller.io is doing this. You might want to look into what licenses they needed to get.

No it isn't, at least, not yet - it asks for all the user login information including passwords and security numbers required for a normal login.

Edit: And unfortunately, it doesn't seem even to have any intention of using it: https://twitter.com/stevegraham/status/951163378424217600

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#22

Post by ErrantX » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 11:18 AM UTC

insomniacity wrote: post #14

ErrantX wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to be a company. You also have to be regulated as an AISP or PISP (Account Information/Payment Initiation Service Provider). So there are some hurdles.

That is disappointing. I wonder if anyone is doing the legal analysis on what it would take to be a 'passthrough provider', who would simply wrap it up in an easier API with a simple TOS.

I think that will come. It will take a bit of time for comfort to set in (both with the consumer and the banks) but I definitely see this as the first step.

(edit; in addition the psd2 legislatiob, and specifically the technical guidance, does touch on concepts like 4th party, relaying parties and technical partners - so the exoectation of the regulator is that this will emerge)

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#23

Post by scraplab » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 11:20 AM UTC

chirau wrote: post #16

insomniacity wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is disappointing. I wonder if anyone is doing the legal analysis on what it would take to be a 'passthrough provider', who would simply wrap it up in an easier API with a simple TOS.

Teller.io is doing this. You might want to look into what licenses they needed to get.

Teller isn't part of the PSD2/Open Banking world. They've reversed engineered all the bank's private APIs for their mobile apps, in part because they believe the banks will hobble and cripple the Open Banking APIs because it's in competition with their business model.

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#24

Post by ErrantX » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 11:30 AM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #21

chirau wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teller.io is doing this. You might want to look into what licenses they needed to get.

No it isn't, at least, not yet - it asks for all the user login information including passwords and security numbers required for a normal login. Edit: And unfortunately, it doesn't seem even to have any intention of using it: https://twitter.com/stevegraham/status/951163378424217600

Teller is interesting; I have some reservations (mostly around the attitude they portray, which is a bit unprofessional) but they have a good vision.

The downside is they are encouraging you to share passwords, as you say, which isn't driving the right customer behaviour.

More critically; in about 18 months the PSD2 Secure Customer Authentication guidance comes into force and this sort of approach (sharing credentials, which everyone basically refers to as "screen scraping" in its various forms) will be dis-favourer, to the extent that banks might have to go to great lengths to try and stop it. Teller might have to go forward fighting continual reverse engineering battles.

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#25

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 11:38 AM UTC

WTF? What is open about a system that only very few organisations can use? Imagine in the paper world, now you not only can ask the bank how much money you have, you can also authorize other companies to look at your account statements for you ... but noone got the idea that maybe you, the account holder, should be able to get a copy of the account statements?

It seems we are still at the "reading and writing is for monks" stage of digital technology? God forbid the laypeople themselves use pen and paper!

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#26

Post by insomniacity » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 11:39 AM UTC

ErrantX wrote: post #24

OJFord wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't, at least, not yet - it asks for all the user login information including passwords and security numbers required for a normal login. Edit: And unfortunately, it doesn't seem even to have any intention of using it: https://twitter.com/stevegraham/status/951163378424217600

Teller is interesting; I have some reservations (mostly around the attitude they portray, which is a bit unprofessional) but they have a good vision. The downside is they are encouraging you to share passwords, as you say, which isn't driving the right customer behaviour. More critically; in about 18 months the PSD2 Secure Customer Authentication guidance comes into force and this sort of approach (sharing credential…

I think we've independently arrived at exactly the same point with our reservations.

In particular I'm concerned that Teller will have a massive target painted on it's back, because it has those full login details - they could become systemically important to the UK banking system, and then perhaps the regulator should step in!

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#27

Post by pbhjpbhj » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 11:40 AM UTC

hacker_9 wrote: post #19

lozenge wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as an NHS medical record, every hospital/care centre keeps its own records. What app are you referring to?

This: https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/online-services/Pages/gp-servi... And yes there isn't a single database, but if you transfer to a different GP they will transfer your records from your old GP, and this app then let's you view them too.

The records amalgamation was one of those £10s-of-billions software project that failed to produce any output [other than great profits and some nice bonuses, I'd warrant] wasn't it?

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#28

Post by ErrantX » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 11:48 AM UTC

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #25

WTF? What is open about a system that only very few organisations can use? Imagine in the paper world, now you not only can ask the bank how much money you have, you can also authorize other companies to look at your account statements for you ... but noone got the idea that maybe you, the account holder, should be able to get a copy of the account statements? It seems we are still at the "reading and writing is for…

Its a fair criticism in part; but you are a technologist and so want unfiltered access to play with that data.

For the vast majority of people that's meaningless - so to be able to share that data with companies offering new and interesting services (AIS sign up is reasonably lightweight, certainly within trivial reach of any startup) is a big step forward.

I think we should be encouraging!

(Or in other words; your thinking of the limitations on the micro level and missing the benefits at the macro)

FWIW GDPR is more interesting legislation for what your after - you will have the ability to get access to your own data. Unfortunately that legislation didn't push hard enough to promote the idea of digital access - we should level our criticism most harshly there to try and effect change :)

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#29

Post by hacker_9 » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 11:57 AM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #27

hacker_9 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This: https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/online-services/Pages/gp-servi... And yes there isn't a single database, but if you transfer to a different GP they will transfer your records from your old GP, and this app then let's you view them too.

The records amalgamation was one of those £10s-of-billions software project that failed to produce any output [other than great profits and some nice bonuses, I'd warrant] wasn't it?

That is in the past, it was a single project from 5 years ago, and I think the companies involved were investigated by the FSA. Nowadays NHS is pushing software initiatives more and more, see here: https://www.england.nhs.uk/digitaltechnology/info-revolution...

Re: UK's Open Banking to Launch on 13 January

#30

Post by Havoc » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 11:59 AM UTC

teh wrote: post #11

I think this is the UK's implementation of EU PSD2 directive (e.g. [1]) so may not survive brexit. Looking forward to what'll come out of it though! [1] https://www.tsys.com/news-innovation/whats-new/Articles-and-...

Haha. And my initial thought was ‘you see this is the type of thing the UK could leverage on arguing for UK thriving without eu’