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Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

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Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#101
post #99

It's really interesting to see non-English languages being used as programming languages. I recall Aheui (아희) programming language that was posted on HN a while back. It's truly exotic. https://aheui.github.io/specification.en > 밤밣따빠밣밟따뿌 빠맣파빨받밤뚜뭏 돋밬탕빠맣붏두붇 볻뫃박발뚷투뭏붖 뫃도뫃희멓뭏뭏붘 뫃봌토범더벌뿌뚜 뽑뽀멓멓더벓뻐뚠 뽀덩벐멓뻐덕더벅 will print hello world according to the example. Reading it phonetically in Korean, makes no sense at all. If I knew ho…

I feel like using 니은 and 기윽 for your quotations limits you in terms of keywords quite a bit. AFAIK, in Korean, they use for their quotations.

ㅋㅋㅋ perhaps in the capitalist counterparts. I'm envisioning a new Korean alphabet only programming language, staying true to the Juche philosophy of self-reliance!

I would replace all operators with Korean characters:

* is ㅆ

|| is ㅣㅣ

&& is ㅃ

+ is ㅏ

= is ㄹ

- is ㅡ

== is ㅌ

> is ㅋ

< is ㄷ

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#103

Awesome stuff - i think this kind of languages are more important than most people (esp with strong english school background assume). I could see this as educational language for kids. Related to this: In the 80/90s i saw a German BASIC variant floating around. Unfortunately i couldnt find it online But… if you are into alternative-language programming languages i highly recommend you reading up on Plankalkül[1] - w…

> I could see this as educational language for kids. In Greece we had (and maybe still have, but it has been almost two decades since i was there) programming lessons in high school. For the most part it was laughable (and TBH almost everyone ignored them) but what i personally found interesting was that someone went and designed a Pascal+BASIC hybrid where everything is in Greek. There wasn't any official implementa…

I built http://www.pseudoglossa.gr/ (you need flash) a web interpreter, ide, debugger with cloud support around 10 years ago when such software was a rare commodity.

It contributed a lot in getting the students and the teachers in the lab to get some hands on experience with programming.

It also spawned the creation of other applications that embedded it and provided classroom management and automatic correction.

Although I am not a teacher anymore I keep it online and a lot of people still use it regularly. Even if you don't know english you can start programming in your native language at a young age.

Never got support from everyone though but it was fun and challenging to make it.

Everything from the editing component until the interpreter and the execution environment had to be made from scratch.

The code is in github https://github.com/sstergou/pseudoglossa.gr

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#104

Another natural language programming language (in Finnish): https://github.com/fergusq/tampio It's technically somewhat amusing as it runs a morphological parser in order to deal with the Finnish word inflection system, which is then utilized as an integral part of the language grammar. As a consequence, since this allows relaxing constraints e.g. on word order, the resulting code does actually read like natural lang…

Finn here: it reads like language that's tediously formal to the point of being awkward, kind of like an old translation of the Bible ("And verily X did beget Y").

"Natural" spoken Finnish abbreviates a lot and dispenses with many conjugations. Maybe I should fork this and build a Helsinki slang version...

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#105
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in perl 6 you can quote strings in quite a few ways! https://docs.perl6.org/language/quoting "Quoting" is all defined inside of a sub-language called "Q"

Ruby has pretty much the same flexibility. "%" followed by almost any non-alphabetic character starts a quoted string. But most then become the quote character. If the quote character is at least ,),] or }. These are all equivalent: % %"x" %{x} %!x! Unfortunately the rules are loose enough that even space is a valid quote character. So this too is equivalent to the above: % x ("% x ")

One more equivalent expression: ?x

A question mark followed by any other single character is treated as a string literal containing that character.

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#106
post #27
post #13

One thing I'm completely ignorant of is how to people from countries where non-latin alphabets are write code? Eg if you're Chinese, Arabic even Russian do you have to do everything in English and English characters? I'd hope there is a Unicode mapping into other characters - is there any language that supports this? Even for libraries would be nice.

Maybe using single characters (e.g. chinese characters) instead of words for keywords is more efficient to type and read for programmers. Not sure how typing compares but it could give code more structure. Does anyone know how governments in China, Japan or Korea handle this? Do they try to use non-english programming languages?

The result seems like it would be very concise code. Identifiers could be very descriptive and still only be a few characters.

Though, I wonder if the varying size of English words makes it easier to distinguish patterns just from the shape of the code.

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#107
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could see this as educational language for kids. In Greece we had (and maybe still have, but it has been almost two decades since i was there) programming lessons in high school. For the most part it was laughable (and TBH almost everyone ignored them) but what i personally found interesting was that someone went and designed a Pascal+BASIC hybrid where everything is in Greek. There wasn't any official implementa…

Neat! Now I just need to develop an Ancient Greek dialect of this ΓΛΩΣΣΑ, and then maybe Italian Liceo Classico high schools will finally have some coding classes...

Someone made a pseudo-parser-thing of Perl in Latin: http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Lingua-Romana-Perligata-0.50...

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#108
post #75

There are already way too many languages on this planet being kept alive by all those pathetic governments limiting their citizens to their own (little) country. English should already long be the World's 1st language for every human being IMAO. I'm Dutch and it took me ages of struggling to get to my current level of English and I'm still learning.. So, this feels like a huge step back and a great way for Filipino d…

I agree that the would already should have had a lingua franca, but I must say that it English is far from the best candidate. The language is huge, and the grammar is full of irregularities. Pronunciation must be learnt case by case (why are "women" pronounced "wee-men"?). (also recall this cute poem: http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~beatrice/humor/english-lesson.htm... )

English is THE candidate. Lingua franca is not decided by merits, but by adoption rate, which makes English is only choice on the table. It is the British empire+US hegemony, since WWII/Cold War that makes English lingua franca as it is today.

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the would already should have had a lingua franca, but I must say that it English is far from the best candidate. The language is huge, and the grammar is full of irregularities. Pronunciation must be learnt case by case (why are "women" pronounced "wee-men"?). (also recall this cute poem: http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~beatrice/humor/english-lesson.htm... )

This is a common complaint, and one the purist in me is sympathetic to. These days, I have a more nuanced perspective on English. Yes, English is huge and complex. However, the things we are trying to express are themselves huge and complex. A big language gives us many many colors to paint with. I mean different things when I say I am "sad", "down", "blue", "disconsolate", or "woebegone". There is a learning burden…

One of my favorite quotes from James Nicoll:

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#110
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian reporting in. I think everyone here who writes code knows Latin alphabet. It's just a basic requirement - it's a given that if you want to code you'd better learn English, let alone alphabet. In schools, kids learn to code using Algol-like language with identifiers in Cyrillic (essentially, Russian) abbreviations, e.g. "нц для i от 1 до n" rather than "for i := 1 until n do", but even here you see Latin lette…

> some use Russian or transliterated Russian (mixing it with some English) liberally so it's not uncommon to see something like `log.Error("Дом не найден %s, %s: %s", ulica, nomerDoma, responseText) /* TODO: Добавить поиск лучшего совпадения */` in their code. This gives me nightmares of dealing with an old patched Joomla install, where the developers had managed to bring in plugins etc. that used multiple inconsiste…

> old patched Joomla

Been there, saw that. The quoted part alone is way more than enough to give nightmares. I bet, encoding issues is just the icing on the cake. ;)

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