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Improving Ourselves to Death

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Re: Improving Ourselves to Death

#61

Post by nradov »

Individualist wrote: post #59
the_greyd wrote: post #2

Very Interesting read. I'm someone who has been reading some self-help literature for the past year. Topics include Mindfulness, Buddhism, Stoicism, Social skills, Positive psychology, Habit forming, Assertiveness. I'm in my early 20s, and I justify this phase as un-learning the coping mechanisms/bad habits I formed in my childhood/teen years. Well intentioned but highly critical parents damaged my self-esteem; I als…

There is no such thing as self help. It's what you do, outside information can only be a guide. And the only way to truly change is to put yourself in a new situation with responsibilities, and allowing yourself to fail till you get it right. Also the only difference between an extrovert and introvert is when they empathize with themselves. And the problem with the "introverted approach," is you are thinking about wh…

You can save time by learning from the mistakes of others. I see no point in failing myself if I can do it right the first time by relying on expert guidance. For some things I do a single major mistake could leave me crippled or dead.

Re: Improving Ourselves to Death

#62

Post by kristofferR »

graphitezepp wrote: post #5
the_greyd wrote: post #2

Very Interesting read. I'm someone who has been reading some self-help literature for the past year. Topics include Mindfulness, Buddhism, Stoicism, Social skills, Positive psychology, Habit forming, Assertiveness. I'm in my early 20s, and I justify this phase as un-learning the coping mechanisms/bad habits I formed in my childhood/teen years. Well intentioned but highly critical parents damaged my self-esteem; I als…

I could write this out word for word and it would be true for me as well. Generally, I think interacting with self help stuff is bad and can lead to being overly self critical. But when you take a hard look at your self and truly acknowledge that you aren't being who you feel like you are, what else is there to do?

If the self-help content you consume in order to improve yourself makes you feel worse about yourself you consume the wrong content... It's almost like saying that food in general is harmful because the fast-food you eat makes you fat.

Re: Improving Ourselves to Death

#63

Post by padobson »

sjg007 wrote: post #28
the_greyd wrote: post #2

Very Interesting read. I'm someone who has been reading some self-help literature for the past year. Topics include Mindfulness, Buddhism, Stoicism, Social skills, Positive psychology, Habit forming, Assertiveness. I'm in my early 20s, and I justify this phase as un-learning the coping mechanisms/bad habits I formed in my childhood/teen years. Well intentioned but highly critical parents damaged my self-esteem; I als…

A therapist can really help in this area as well.

Couldn't agree more. The biggest difference between therapy and your regular doctor is that you get an hour with your therapist - so if you have specific problems or goals, you can get a lot of time with them to chew on those issues. Whether you find a solution or not, you leave therapy feeling like you've made progress, which is vital for emotional health.

Re: Improving Ourselves to Death

#64

Post by coldtea »

trowawee wrote: post #40

I'm a little frustrated at the tossed-off reference to Plato and Aristotle at the beginning - "The good life may have sufficed for Plato and Aristotle, but it is no longer enough." - because I feel like that ignores the fact that both Plato and Aristotle, along with a lot of philosophers, actually had a lot to say about physical fitness. Plato was a champion wrestler, and both he and Aristotle viewed physical educati…

>Plato was a champion wrestler

And the name Plato is a nickname -- meaning "the broad/wide one" given to him for his broad shoulders because of that training and physical appereance. Real name: Aristocles.

Re: Improving Ourselves to Death

#65

Post by coldtea »

nradov wrote: post #61
Individualist wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as self help. It's what you do, outside information can only be a guide. And the only way to truly change is to put yourself in a new situation with responsibilities, and allowing yourself to fail till you get it right. Also the only difference between an extrovert and introvert is when they empathize with themselves. And the problem with the "introverted approach," is you are thinking about wh…

You can save time by learning from the mistakes of others. I see no point in failing myself if I can do it right the first time by relying on expert guidance. For some things I do a single major mistake could leave me crippled or dead.

>You can save time by learning from the mistakes of others.

Only barely. For important life decisions/paths, people only learn from their own mistakes (and often not even from those).

Heck, Computer Science as a field itself forgets its own collected wisdom every new generation hits the market, and re-invents BS that other eras have tried and buried with another fad name.

What's even worse, those "self-help" books are full of contradictory, snake-oily, and plain wrong information, and can even put people on BS priorities and give them a false sense of what it means to be happy/successful etc. Which is one reason people reading those books keep reading those books and going to those seminars -- they're not meant to get you somewhere, but to keep those believing them hooked forever.

There are exceptions, sure. But not 100.000 exceptions, and there are more than 100.000 such crap works.

Re: Improving Ourselves to Death

#66

Post by [deleted] »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #39
trowawee wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he was deluded about being the Son of God, but that doesn't mean we should throw out the ethical precepts he advocated. A life lived by the major tenets espoused by Jesus in the Bible - treat other people the way you would want to be treated, be compassionate to people who screw up, take care of people who are less fortunate than yourself - would be a good life. Not surprisingly, those are tenets that are com…

Remember, he said we were all children of god . It was the hero-worshippers of the day that turned him into a special person. I don't believe he claimed to be any more than the rest of us.

[deleted]

Re: Improving Ourselves to Death

#67

Post by mkirklions »

thwawaywaq23498 wrote: post #45
jcadam wrote: post #4

tl;dr - I made it about two paragraphs in before I started skimming. It's a rambling an uninteresting rant against the self-help industry, which ends with a recommendation for another self-help book. I fail to see what point the author is trying to make. What is life but a struggle to become the best person one can be? And who cares if the quest kills us? We're all going to die anyway. What else were you going to do…

> tl;dr - I made it about two paragraphs in before I started skimming. It's a rambling an uninteresting rant against the self-help industry, which ends with a recommendation for another self-help book. I fail to see what point the author is trying to make. An essay of this length should communicate something that is not necessarily digestible into a single point. In fact, it's arguable that a good essay cannot be sum…

As a writer, I disagree with the excuse 'Its an essay it is supposed to prove a point'.

There was no 'Hook' in the first 5-7 paragraphs, heck I couldnt really tell what the point of the article was.

This IMO was a poorly written article. I thought the points that were made were real, but didnt go back to whatever the heck the main point was.

Wonder who's kid the author is.

Re: Improving Ourselves to Death

#68

Post by mkirklions »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #26

I know I will likely catch a lot of downvotes for this, but I found the teachings of Jesus to answer questions of how to run life. As well as the Proverbs of the old testament, and many other scriptures. Seek and you will find. When I get stuck, I found in the past I would look for excuses on why something isn't working, or why is this happening to me, or when will this end. But when I started to actually "seek" I al…

I'm a christian, but I'm probably more interested in my personal stoic philosophy first.

What is God? Is God a programmer?

What language was our universe written in?

I find Atheism an excuse to skip these question. I think Agnostic is significantly a better way for Atheists to approach problems.

I'm starting to believe in Simulation Theory, and that a nerd like me created a universe. Thats our Christian "God".

Re: Improving Ourselves to Death

#69

Post by kdoherty »

coldtea wrote: post #65
nradov wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can save time by learning from the mistakes of others. I see no point in failing myself if I can do it right the first time by relying on expert guidance. For some things I do a single major mistake could leave me crippled or dead.

> You can save time by learning from the mistakes of others. Only barely. For important life decisions/paths, people only learn from their own mistakes (and often not even from those). Heck, Computer Science as a field itself forgets its own collected wisdom every new generation hits the market, and re-invents BS that other eras have tried and buried with another fad name. What's even worse, those "self-help" books a…

>>You can save time by learning from the mistakes of others.

>Only barely. For important life decisions/paths, people only learn from their own mistakes (and often not even from those).

>Heck, Computer Science as a field itself forgets its own collected wisdom every new generation hits the market, and re-invents BS that other eras have tried and buried with another fad name.

Your last statement sounds like it's in favor of "learning from the mistakes of others" in that we could avoid re-inventing failed "BS" if we learned from others' mistakes. Are you saying that the idea that folks in CS re-invent work which has previously failed is evidence that it is not possible to learn from the mistakes of others?

Re: Improving Ourselves to Death

#70

Post by RepressedEmu »

taneq wrote: post #29
RobertRoberts wrote: post #26

I know I will likely catch a lot of downvotes for this, but I found the teachings of Jesus to answer questions of how to run life. As well as the Proverbs of the old testament, and many other scriptures. Seek and you will find. When I get stuck, I found in the past I would look for excuses on why something isn't working, or why is this happening to me, or when will this end. But when I started to actually "seek" I al…

TBH, and I say this as a pretty staunch atheist, Jesus sounds like he had a lot of his shit sorted. Most of what I've read about him is just him being fair and advocating respect of everyone involved.

I do the same thing with Jean-Luc Picard from The Next Generation. WWJLPD?
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