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Dogecoin's inventor looks to the past for insight into the future

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Re: Dogecoin's inventor looks to the past for insight into the future

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin - Because the problem with global finance is too much regulation. It baffles me how seemingly capable people have had the idea that a cryptocurrency would counter 2008 style stuff. It seems like a reasoning short circuit: Big institutions failed us, so something without big institutions must be immune. The big institutions failed us exactly by allowing each other to do too much. By not regulating (which is by…

> It baffles me how seemingly capable people have had the idea that a cryptocurrency would counter 2008 style stuff. It seems like a reasoning short circuit: Big institutions failed us, so something without big institutions must be immune. I think you misunderstood what people mean by saying "counter 2008 style stuff". The aim isn't to prevent 2008 from happening again, but if 2008 were to happen again, then be in a…

What you outline is the libertarian/neoliberal case for crypto, and while more coherent (and is built into the currency with the whole "fixed total supply" structure) it seems to me no less of a fantasy.

The state can damn well impose capital controls and confiscate accounts. You transfer the money elsewhere continue to use it? The state now has perfect transparency to see that. Did you own any assets in the country you're fleeing? They're confiscated. Does the state you're fleeing to have an extradition treaty with the state you're coming from? To bad. You refuse to hand over the account that has been confiscate? You go to jail until you do.

Just carrying gold seems a better choice if that's your game plan.

However, I haven't heard that case that much (and never as explicitly as you put it here).

Re: Dogecoin's inventor looks to the past for insight into the future

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what your point is. If all banks switched from dollars to Bitcoin, they could still be bailed out.

Sure, if the government in question has the funds on hand or can borrow them. But they can't just literally increase the number of Bitcoin by a factor of 5 [1] in order to give trillions of dollars to people who have demonstrated their incompetence at handling that money. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BASE

> But they can't just literally increase the number of Bitcoin by a factor of 5 [1] in order to give trillions of dollars to people who have demonstrated their incompetence at handling that money.

Sure you can. It's code, why wouldn't you be able to change it?

There is no reason that cryptocurrency has to be inherently deflationary, rewards can easily be issued at a constant rate or any other rate. You are mixing up Bitcoin, the libertarian implementation, with the abstract cryptocurrency in general. This is an implementation detail.

In fact, there is actually already a rather storied history of centralized interventions to bail out failing institutions. See: the DAO hack and the subsequent rollback...

Could Vitalik just as easily have said "JP Morgan now has +5 million Eth?" Absolutely.

Nobody else necessarily needs to accept that version of the blockchain (see: Ethereum Classic) but there is a network effect here: if everyone else agrees to accept that version of history then sucks to be you, everyone wants to deal with Eth not PaulCoins. And people tend not to be willing to accept calamity when offered an alternative. Ethereum Classic is the version of history which best upholds those high-minded libertarian ideals, but it's also the version of history where a single attacker has 15% of all the ether.

Re: Dogecoin's inventor looks to the past for insight into the future

#143
post #76

« Once the cryptocurrency price bubble pops and takes all the hype with it, will the community be able to recover the energy it needs to build real, innovative technology once again? » Of course it will recover. Blockchain technologies are so transformational that you need a lot more than a simple price crash to kill cryptocurrencies. Of all persons, the creator of a cryptocurrency (even a joke one) should understand…

> Of course it will recover. Blockchain technologies are so transformational that you need a lot more than a simple price crash to kill cryptocurrencies.

Are they transformation? I have yet to see a blockchain application that's not done more cheaply with a traditional database. Most of the practical uses of blockchain are as effectively centralized "distributed" databases (e.g. corporate blockchains), while the rest are cryptocurrencies and other distributed ledgers that are, at the moment, extremely volatile.

Re: Dogecoin's inventor looks to the past for insight into the future

#144

>"To deliver a peer-to-peer alternative to cash that, through decentralization, did away with the need for trust in financial institutions, which the 2008 crisis showed to be unscrupulous, and often corrupt." The sort of activity which led to the financial crisis would not be mitigated by the establishment of a decentralized currency. Decentralization would not do away with the need for financial institutions (or the…

It wasn't "The sort of activity which led to the financial crisis" that inspired bitcoin. After the crisis happened the US government funded the massive bailout by printing more money. It turned out to be a "good" decision since it prevented a catastrophic economic failure but it did cause more inflation and some people weren't happy that a government can just print more money on a whim. So that's how the bitcoin cam…

The banks seem to have won the propaganda war about bailouts preventing economic collapse pretty well. I guess once the government makes the bailout and the banks accept the bailout, both parties are pretty committed to ensuring the public thinks that the bailouts were required.

What we really got was a tacit approval for bankers that they could make highly leveraged bets in the 7 years that the markets were going up, make shitloads of money, feel like geniuses, and then when it all inevitably explodes the government would bail them out and then QE like crazy to pick up the pieces. The QE would be given not to citizens, but to banks to inflate equity markets, and start the whole cycle again.

Now we have a whole new generation of financial "geniuses" overhyping every asset class, making shitloads of money off it all, thinking they are geniuses, and when it all collapses again they think the same thing will happen. It may do, but this time I don't have to be involved in that bullshit. My money is now unprintable. They can devalue the USD shitcoin all they want, but there are still only 21 million possible bitcoins and that's all I care about.

Re: Dogecoin's inventor looks to the past for insight into the future

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In modern systems money can be created by banks lending money. That's an interesting property as money creation is tied to the course of the economy. However, this can lead to inflation if the amount of money created actually exceeds the growth in economic activity. In the gold standard model where the amount of money is completely uncorrelated with economic activity, you have inherent deflation. Deflation is a serio…

> Deflation is a serious threat, as it pushed people to hold onto their currency (as the real value automatically rises) instead of spending or investing it. Why would people not invest (or spend for that matter)? It's not like people wouldn't take deflation into account the same way they do with inflation today. If you loan out a dollar today and at the end of the loan its worth $1.03 then you simply adjust the inte…

> Why would people not invest (or spend for that matter)?

People will still invest, but risk tolerance goes way down and ROI expectations go way up.

Concretely, your business plan has to compete with "I can get an x% return by putting my money under my pillow", and x becomes very large in a highly deflationary economy. Place yourself in the shoes of a person seeking investment in a productive business, and the problems with a deflationary economy become obvious. Being good isn't enough. You have to be better than "sit on my ass and get rich doing nothing".

In other words, the primary concern in a deflationary economy is discouraging value-producing economic activity.

Also, all of this is wrt deflation in general. Notice that a fiat currency can easily be deflationary. The deflationary nature of gold standards is a major component of the criticism of gold standards, but there are also other reasons that people oppose gold standards.

> Same can also be said about spending. As a contemporary example why would anyone buy a computer today when they know that in the near future they can get a better model for less? The whole computer industry thrives in a price deflationary sector of the economy.

People still buy computers because having a computer today helps capture value that you can't capture by having a better computer tomorrow. For consumers, entertainment tonight. For businesses, automating processes today.

> Whenever someone is trying to push one economic theory over another the key question you need to ask is cui bono.

That's not quite fair. There are people motivated by truth and there are also people motivated by ideology.

Re: Dogecoin's inventor looks to the past for insight into the future

#147
post #122
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd trust Doge more than most cryptocurrencies, honestly. It's relatively established, the community doesn't or at least didn't take itself too seriously (sounds like that may now have changed), and it took the (admittedly mostly symbolic) decision to allow "mining" to continue indefinitely, ensuring there will always be a Doge supply rather than passing all gains to the early adopters. In a sense it's a lot more fun…

It hasn't had an update in two years. What about when a vulnerability is discovered?

Although there hasn't been a release in two years they're currently working on releasing 1.14 this year. In case you're interested the core devs have been doing a pretty good job on keeping people informed on the status of the release on the subreddit. Latest post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/comments/7oxi53/developer_...

Re: Dogecoin's inventor looks to the past for insight into the future

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I never understood with the blockchain is the idea that it would change the politics of finance in favour of the little guy. As far as I can tell, financial institutions are exceedingly well practiced at co-opting new monetary systems, as they have been doing exactly that for a very long time, so I never thought that a new model of ledger was ever going to really faze them.

Absolutely, and that's what is happening right now. I honestly don't have a solution for this problem... other than trying to make it as least appealing to these institutions are possible.

The only 'solution' I can see to this problem, is to develop an alternative to the floating monetary unit, of solving the calculation of exchanging goods and labour.

Money is useful, because it solves for the 'n' of a given trade by using all the pricing of transactions as a form of parallel computation, so the fact that it may often give sub-optimal results is outweighed by the fact that it has such a low overhead, compared to the traditional alternatives, such as planned resource based economies, which have historically been plagued by both sub-optimal results and a very high overhead.

The revolutionary work in economics isn't being done on the blockchain, or in any other new currencies for that matter. It is being done in the world of AI and big-data, when applied to logistics.

If you really want to revolutionise money, you have to try and make it obsolete.

edit: Also, seeking sources of funding may be problematic for such an enterprise - "Please can you invest in this plan to destroy capitalism." - being a particularly difficult sell.

Perhaps if it can be reframed as - "Please can you invest in this plan to destroy capitalism that also has excellent quarterly returns." - then it might get somewhere.

Re: Dogecoin's inventor looks to the past for insight into the future

#149
The founder who was given the title as "inventor" in this article is not the inventor. He did not mention the developer who help do the C++ source code and actually invent Dogecoin. I would call my cryptocurrency a joke too probably if I saw the price rise exponentially and didn't put the work to make it a viable blockchain. It is easy to criticize from an armchair.

Re: Dogecoin's inventor looks to the past for insight into the future

#150

A copy/paste from /u/palmerstoned on reddit on 2018 Jan 7. What do you guys think? /u/palmerstoned: There is no fucking limit on how high this can go (compared to traditional stocks where there actually is a limit due to economic indicators like P/E ratio's). When someone says it's overvalued or undervalued, they are automatically wrong because we have not found any method yet to actually value crypto's, unless you c…

love it. wonder why it’s so contrary
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