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Tea if by sea, cha if by land: Why the world only has two words for tea

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Re: Tea if by sea, cha if by land: Why the world only has two words for tea

#211

Post by realitygrill »

dwyer wrote: post #93

I'm no Chinese expert, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I've found that the Chinese word 茶 (cha) doesn't always necessarily mean tea, but can refer generically to a number of different brewed drinks. e.g. barley tea (大麥茶), ginger tea (薑茶), golden oats tea (燕麥茶), etc. all of which translate to tea, but often contain no tea leaves. It may seem like a nitpick, but when you're in China and order what you expect t…

My impression (as a heritage speaker) is that cha's usage has simply broadened a bit, in the same way that American English has herbal teas and fruit teas. These also don't contain any tea, and have a different term, tisane. But both cha and tea still primarily refer to, well, tea leaves.

Re: Tea if by sea, cha if by land: Why the world only has two words for tea

#212

Post by anqurvanillapy »

I’m a native (simplified) Chinese speaker and I found it interesting to see the growth of meanings of tea, from originally a kind of bitter vegetable (荼, as 艹 for vegetable-related, 余 from 涂 for muds), to brewed drinks. For instance if you order a cup of 果茶 (lit. fruit tea), you will end up having a cup of hot water with sugar and cut apple pieces and more. The meaning of the “brewed drink” is IMO really pervasive.

Re: Tea if by sea, cha if by land: Why the world only has two words for tea

#213

Post by stordoff »

benhsu wrote: post #136
dwyer wrote: post #93

I'm no Chinese expert, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I've found that the Chinese word 茶 (cha) doesn't always necessarily mean tea, but can refer generically to a number of different brewed drinks. e.g. barley tea (大麥茶), ginger tea (薑茶), golden oats tea (燕麥茶), etc. all of which translate to tea, but often contain no tea leaves. It may seem like a nitpick, but when you're in China and order what you expect t…

There are similar words in English. My favorite example is Pudding, which can mean anything from black pudding (a sausage), to yorkshire pudding (a bread) to plum pudding (a dessert) source: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-brits-talk-about-...

Are Yorkshire puddings bread? I've never thought of them as such.

Re: Tea if by sea, cha if by land: Why the world only has two words for tea

#214

Post by stordoff »

mseebach wrote: post #184
benhsu wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are similar words in English. My favorite example is Pudding, which can mean anything from black pudding (a sausage), to yorkshire pudding (a bread) to plum pudding (a dessert) source: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-brits-talk-about-...

And (as covered in the article, but bears repetition), confusingly also in many areas simply means the dessert course. You can have apple pie for pudding.

Yorkshire being a good example: you can have Yorkshire pudding as part of your main course, and then pudding afterwards (but sometimes might have Yorkshire pudding as pudding).

Re: Tea if by sea, cha if by land: Why the world only has two words for tea

#215

Post by abritinthebay »

This is a quite cool breakdown of the differences.

One thing it misses is in English (ie, the country) usage there is both.

Tea, obviously, is more common but the phrase "a cup of char" is clearly derived from the Chinese and Indian origins. Interestingly it (at least was) primarily a working class phrasing, possibly originating with sea-faring types and dock workers.

Of course now the US is confusing matters by making "chai" be ubiquitous for Massala chai, but that's a different matter!

Re: Tea if by sea, cha if by land: Why the world only has two words for tea

#216

Post by sorokod »

akkat wrote: post #110
gerhardi wrote: post #59

Almost the same goes for the word Restaurant. Everywhere in the world it's almost the same - except in Russia it is pectopah! :)

In Hebrew it is completely different מסעדה or mis'adah

Wouldn't this be a word made up in the early 20th century? Many Hebrew words were created pretty much from nothing at that time to revive an ancient language into modern use.

Re: Tea if by sea, cha if by land: Why the world only has two words for tea

#217

Post by 0xffff2 »

stordoff wrote: post #213
benhsu wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are similar words in English. My favorite example is Pudding, which can mean anything from black pudding (a sausage), to yorkshire pudding (a bread) to plum pudding (a dessert) source: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-brits-talk-about-...

Are Yorkshire puddings bread? I've never thought of them as such.

They are made from batter rather than dough, which I think disqualifies them as bread. On the other hand, corn bread and banana bread are also made from a batter, so you could call Yorkshire pudding a bread based on those. If I really wanted to assign them to a more common category than pudding, I would say they are a cake.

Re: Tea if by sea, cha if by land: Why the world only has two words for tea

#218

Post by ljf »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #105
ljf wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a kid in Sheffield I understood it as 'dinner' was your hot meal whenever you might have it, and tea was a lighter meal. So many kids had a hot meal at school (school dinner) and then went home for tea.

My upbringing was middle-class, my dad taught for a time in Sheffield - tea just meant "evening meal" and was probably always a larger hot meal than was served at school dinners. In South Wales they talk about "cooked dinner" which is a roasted meat meal, usually chicken for Sunday lunch, but can be any time of the week. Presumably that harks back to families having lots of uncooked meals (through poverty).

I should have clearer, I meant the roots of the phrase 'tea'.

That said I used to confuse some very northern friends by talking about dinner as my evening meal. They literally only thought of dinner as lunch and the evening meal was only called tea.

I think the roots were from when only the father of the house had a cooked evening meal, and everyone else had tea and sandwiches or similar. But that was distant past I believe.

Re: Tea if by sea, cha if by land: Why the world only has two words for tea

#219

Post by seshagiric »

protonfish wrote: post #145
angrygoat wrote: post #89

At least in Australia, "chai" is on sale in cafes meaning Masala chai, a mix of leaf tea and Indian spices and herbs. And then you've got the "chai latte", like a regular latte but with "chai" instead of espresso. Amusing weirding of language - it should really be a "masala"!

Masala means "blend of spices" "Garam masala" is a blend of hot spices, "chai masala" is meant for making tea, In the US, Chai usually refers to Indian style tea with milk and spices. Source: I've worked with a lot of Indian people.

As an Indian I want to put this on record, the spiced tea is absolutely obnoxious. We do not drink it. There is a different one flavored with ginger or cardamon, which people like and tastes so much better than 'masala chai' sold in US etc.

Re: Tea if by sea, cha if by land: Why the world only has two words for tea

#220

Post by horshod »

haskal wrote: post #170
horshod wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so interesting! So your mom grew up in a Marathi family in Guangdong?

That is such a weird combination. Most Maharashtrians I know from the previous generation (including my parents) are from Maharashtra, and Maharashtrians have somewhat of a reputation for not wanting to leave Maharashtra.

I know, right?
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