New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices • Hacker News Board

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#201

Post by debaserab2 » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 4:12 PM UTC

CWuestefeld wrote: post #187

tumblen wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went through this process in 2015-2016 after my fiancee was turned away while we were entering the US in PHL (they said she had already spent too much time with me there). We went back to Spain where she's from and started the 4+ month long process of getting her a K-1 fiancee visa. It is a lot of reading, a lot of forms, and nerve-wracking interviews so I understand where you're coming from. But now she has a gree…

The immigration system is horribly broken. My wife, too, is an immigrant, and our experience is vastly different from yours. For example, they scheduled her for an interview on a date that was impossible for her to make (iirc, that was her first day of a new job). She went to the INS offices to ask to have it rescheduled, and the person at the desk just gave her a flat "no, we do not reschedule interviews". My wife a…

Wouldn’t an immigration interview trump any other reaponsibility a person has? I’d explain to my boss the situation and see if I can get my day switched way before I’d expect any government agency to shuffle things around for my work schedule (especially any agency that’s immigration related).

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#202

Post by AFNobody » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 4:14 PM UTC

edanm wrote: post #191

I understand the anger, and I understand people wanting to protest. But why on earth would most people here feel the need to travel with a wiped, or factory-defaulted device? I mean, if you have something to hide, or sensitive information, sure, I guess. But it's not like they stop and ask for a password from everyone. This probably applies to 1 in thousands, if not tens of thousands of passengers. What on earth do y…

I'm not sure what you work on but literally any laptop I'd bring with me while traveling has sensitive materials on them.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#203

Post by welterde » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 4:17 PM UTC

danesparza wrote: post #181

alerighi wrote: post #176

And you still call your country a democracy! If this doesn't change, I will never consider to move or even go on vacation to the USA, I might live in a state that has a lot of problems (Italy), but at least I have the right of privacy, and I can take a plane without having agents searching through my sensitive information on my devices.

It's not (nor has it ever been) a democracy. It's a Federal Republic. More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States

Democracy and federal republic are not mutually exclusive (in modern usage anyway). Far from it - being a federal republic is just one of many variants of democracies.

The USA - like other countries, such as Germany or Mexico - are both a (representative) democracy and a federal republic.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#204

Post by zerkten » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 4:18 PM UTC

shubb wrote: post #98

lethargic_meat wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just have multi-boot and before crossing set the auto-boot timeout at 0, then change it later. If you want to be safe, you can also copy and delete the boot details for your actual partition. I leave a dummy partition with Windows, office and other shortcuts and a wallpaper of a cat during my US visits. I also have both a facebook and a gmail subscribed to all the spam you can get. Not because I have any criminal act…

>> If authorities want to check my private and work data, they can ask nicely through a judge. I am confused,surely non-citizens have no rights or recourse to the law at an airport? In any case, I am concerned that your approach would be defeated if they took an image of your hard drive and threw some basic tools at it. They probably have this as a kit.

Non-citizens effectively have zero rights. Your rights increase as you go through different visa types and get to citizens. The appearance of actions like these can make you appear deceptive, or uncooperative at the very least. CBP can easily put you on a plane back after making things uncomfortable for a while.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#205

Post by smcl » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 4:19 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #69

Unfortunately the recommended behavior is to be "difficult". Trying to somehow state your own rights, demand that officers perform searches in accordance with law etc. - which is "being difficult". If you are on your way to a great holiday, important meeting etc, you aren't going to risk it. Because anyone "being difficult" will be detained or rejected. So I'll just fold and give them my password. And they know this.…

Personally I'm just gonna skip the USA altogether for holidays and work - the world is pretty huge and full of interesting places. I know it's not an option for US citizens and it's a shame for the rest of us but I've decided it's not worth it.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#206

Post by FireBeyond » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 4:20 PM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #61

3131s wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an American living outside the US for ~5 years. It's become very difficult to plan for the future now that I am in a permanent relationship with a non-US citizen (we would be married already if not for the various complications associated with being different nationalities). Especially since she is from a so-called "shithole" country, one of the poorest on earth, we have doubts about whether it's even worth ever…

Why wouldn't you sponsor her for a K visa? If it's not too personal / I'm curious, where do you live?

Apropos of anything else, my arrival in the US from Australia (as a K-1) has cost over the years, at last count, coming up on $25,000...

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#207

Post by cryptonector » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 4:23 PM UTC

If you are a U.S. person they cannot deny you entry for not giving them your passwords, though they can keep your devices for some time.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#208

Post by FireBeyond » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 4:24 PM UTC

toomanybeersies wrote: post #188

txcwpalpha wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Canada, the UK, and Australia all have policies to ask travelers for their passwords for laptops/cell phones, and you'll be sent back home (if you're a foreigner) or arrested (if you're a citizen, at least in Canada [1]) if you refuse. 1: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/alain-philippon-to...

I had a friend get refused entry to Australia because they made him open his Facebook messenger, and they found out he was planning to work on a tourist visa. They only did that though because he just finished a 3 month tourist visa, left the country for a week, and then came back with another 3 months.

Seems to me that's the digital equivalent of showing up on a tourist visa (or via the visa waiver program) with a bunch of resumes printed in your luggage.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#209

Post by teh_klev » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 4:27 PM UTC

txcwpalpha wrote: post #189

teh_klev wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK citizen here. I'm not aware of any policy in the UK that forces travellers to hand over their device passwords - i.e. not in the same draconian way that's happening in the US. Border control in the UK is pretty well overstretched as it is. I don't think they've got the resources to perform this type of intrusion, even if they wanted to.

From 2013: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/10177765/Travellers-mo... Also a case in 2016 of a UK citizen being arrested for refusing to give his password to UK border police: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/25/campaign-gro...

Yeah, but I don't think it's a routine thing (I'll check with my pal who runs a borders team to be sure). I think you need to have been a specific target and person of interest for things to go that far.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#210

Post by _jal » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 4:28 PM UTC

newfoundglory wrote: post #200

_jal wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about your (or anyone else's) principles. I can't see into anyone's heart or mind. I'm talking about revealed preference, more than anything else. Yes, fighting is risky and unpleasant. It always is. You make your choice and live with the result.

That sounds pretty judgmental, especially since I suspect there are human rights threats around the world that you (and everyone else) are not fighting either.

You can take it how you like. I'm simply stating the obvious.

But this particular variation "you're a hypocrite for spending energy on X when there's so much Y in the world" argument was weak when it was first trotted out and hasn't aged well. Worse, the argument is an irrelevant red-herring when talking about choices an individual makes about their own reactions to their own rights being encroached in day to day life. Nobody complains that someone who fights back at being mugged isn't also fighting spousal abuse in $far_away_land.