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New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

papersplease.org

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Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#191

Post by edanm »

I understand the anger, and I understand people wanting to protest.

But why on earth would most people here feel the need to travel with a wiped, or factory-defaulted device? I mean, if you have something to hide, or sensitive information, sure, I guess. But it's not like they stop and ask for a password from everyone. This probably applies to 1 in thousands, if not tens of thousands of passengers. What on earth do you gain by going through the elaborate precaution of wiping all your devices, for a 1 in 10k chance of someone bothering to look at them, especially when they wouldn't find anything?

It is ok to be both angry, even outraged at a policy, but also not let it impact you in a totally crazy way which doesn't make any sense.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#192

Post by zbentley »

robinwassen wrote: post #106
kqr wrote: post #42

Is it an option to just feign ignorance and claim not to know the password? Sure, they might confiscate it but I guess then you'll have to find a cheap alternative to restore your backups to until/if you get it back.

I think a cheaper alternative is to only allow access to non-sensitive information when initially logging into the device, then hide any substantial information behind another layer. Don't think the average customs officer has time or skills to dig out files containing encrypted volumes on your device.

The average customs officer will not do that. But they will potentially take an image of the hard drive (possibly by removing it and connecting it to an imaging computer) and store it, after which people/programs with both the time and skills can find your hidden data.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#193

Post by antihero »

FidelCashflow wrote: post #162

We should resist this by wasting as much time as humanly possible. How about carrying multiple data devices with brute force able encryption for meaningless data? Encrypted linux ISOs, 8051 datasheets, trivial C programs, etc. There's clearly a file structure in place, it's clearly not easily readable, the person who was carrying it will not (or maybe cannot because they genuinely don't know) divulge how to read it.…

This seems like a good plan if you enjoy sitting in a holding cell for hours or days.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#194

Post by jnagro »

edanm wrote: post #191

I understand the anger, and I understand people wanting to protest. But why on earth would most people here feel the need to travel with a wiped, or factory-defaulted device? I mean, if you have something to hide, or sensitive information, sure, I guess. But it's not like they stop and ask for a password from everyone. This probably applies to 1 in thousands, if not tens of thousands of passengers. What on earth do y…

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." - Edward Snowden

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#195

Post by crispyambulance »

eximius wrote: post #152
crispyambulance wrote: post #147

It seems to me that few people are talking about what actually happens to phones/laptops when they're unlocked by a password given by the passenger. There's a HUGE difference between... A) A derpy mall-cop DHS agent casually browsing through your laptop/phone for a minute or two, looking at emails, pictures etc. B) The contents of hard-drive/flash/phone being copied to a government server, stored in perpetuity, and s…

And you don't know, can't know which it is since they can remove the device from your presence. So you have to assume the latter.

Yeah, I would make that assumption if they confiscated the device and said "we'll send it back to you whenever."

But why do I feel that "derpy DHS agent browses computer for a few minutes" is far, far more likely in a scenario where the device is taken to a back room?

Is it really impossible to know anything about what is done with devices in the back room?

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#196

Post by jstanley »

ben_w wrote: post #108
actionowl wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those people don't carry that data with them You've made a great point here. What criminal is also going to carry their incriminating data with them? This isn't an effective policy. What problem does it actually solve?

Most people, I think, don’t follow strict digital security/hygiene policies, nor understand them. That includes me, even though I try to be good. (I will not give specific details because two of my three memorable errors are currently covered by NDAs, and the third is personal).

Right, but they don't need to investigate most people. They need to investigate people who are motivated enough to... well, I'm not sure what. Cross borders while possessing illegal data? But anyway, the people who are motivated enough to do it can easily circumvent it. The only people harmed are innocents.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#197

Post by StavrosK »

edanm wrote: post #191

I understand the anger, and I understand people wanting to protest. But why on earth would most people here feel the need to travel with a wiped, or factory-defaulted device? I mean, if you have something to hide, or sensitive information, sure, I guess. But it's not like they stop and ask for a password from everyone. This probably applies to 1 in thousands, if not tens of thousands of passengers. What on earth do y…

What can I say here? "You may have nothing to hide now, but this stays in the government records, and if you're liberal-leaning, the way things are going, you may find yourself in trouble in ten years?" Who's going to believe that the US will be hostile to liberals in ten years?

Who'd believe a month before the election that Trump would be president? Be cavalier with your personal data, but in my country we say "guard your clothes so you at least have half of them".

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#198

Post by kaybe »

jnagro wrote: post #194
edanm wrote: post #191

I understand the anger, and I understand people wanting to protest. But why on earth would most people here feel the need to travel with a wiped, or factory-defaulted device? I mean, if you have something to hide, or sensitive information, sure, I guess. But it's not like they stop and ask for a password from everyone. This probably applies to 1 in thousands, if not tens of thousands of passengers. What on earth do y…

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." - Edward Snowden

It's also naive. Most of the things I have to hide are other people's secrets. Closeted people's sexual orientations, secret pregnancies and cheating, porn fetisches.. sure, none of these things are a huge problem (though illegal in some countries..), but they are vulnerabilities of the people that shared them with me, and they are not mine to disclose.

Currently that probably means to never even mention these things in combination with anything internet (unless it has strong encryption, maybe).

edit: mental health issues, drug use, compromising pictures and situations, ...

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#199

Post by [deleted] »

kaybe wrote: post #198
jnagro wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." - Edward Snowden

It's also naive. Most of the things I have to hide are other people's secrets. Closeted people's sexual orientations, secret pregnancies and cheating, porn fetisches .. sure, none of these things are a huge problem (though illegal in some countries..), but they are vulnerabilities of the people that shared them with me, and they are not mine to disclose. Currently that probably means to never even mention these thing…

[deleted]

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#200

Post by newfoundglory »

_jal wrote: post #182
alkonaut wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I can't afford to stand up for my ideals at the border . I expect people (including myself) to stand up for these things, just not at the border . My main way of disagreeing with policies like this is to simply skip any travel to the US. I can't vote, but I can vote with my wallet. But basically saying that people should either accept that their expensive holiday (or job) might go down the toilet, or they ha…

I'm not talking about your (or anyone else's) principles. I can't see into anyone's heart or mind. I'm talking about revealed preference, more than anything else. Yes, fighting is risky and unpleasant. It always is. You make your choice and live with the result.

That sounds pretty judgmental, especially since I suspect there are human rights threats around the world that you (and everyone else) are not fighting either.
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