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The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

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Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#51

Post by vtange »

sixtypoundhound wrote: post #2

This. Seriously, I run a bunch of FREE websites and I'm amazed by the stuff that shows up in my inbox. When did it become ok to harass someone running a FREE website? If you don't like it, hit the frigging back button. And get a life.

This reminds me of an article I read a long while back (I don't remember the title..) that basically argued that by lowering the barrier of entry to your content, be it a game, app, etc., you make it such that others have nothing to lose for slinging mud. IIRC the same article did a study on online free-to-play and subscription games and noticed that games with higher barrier of entry, be it with price or even a lottery system, tend to see more civility in their communities, since people have something to lose if they are banned.

It would be great if someone could link that article in or something.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#52

Post by QAPereo »

swivelmaster wrote: post #47
QAPereo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Death threats and abuse are a non-starter, but working on making more addictive games-cum-casinos should probably come with polite disdain. Given that so much in gaming has become a money grab from kids and people wired to gamble is, a shame. So... death threats? Doxxing? Abuse? No, never. Respect for a good job well done? Also no. Hunting “whales” for vast profits is a good business model, but so is selling tobacco…

Not all of the games involved were mtx-based. One was more like "you screwed up the IP I love, die!" edit: Also, it is profoundly unhelpful to the discussion to say what you said, which is basically "Well, what did you expect, a pat on the back?" We're talking here about abuse, not constructive criticism. Here's an analogy: Nobody expects an Oscar for working on Transformers 6, but personally subjecting them to onlin…

What I said was that everything from abuse to rudeness is simply wrong, and I made that point unambiguously, twice. You are right that I think there should be consequences for abusive practices, but reasonable ones, like what I’m doing right now. Making people feel worthless, insulting them, threatening them... is evil.

As for the people who send death treats over pure design choices, I have nothing, but sympathy for you.

Edit: No excuse for abuse, and I agree with your point about shitty movies. It is worth pointing out however, that movies don’t generally attempt to become lengthy addictions which siphon potentially ruinous sums of money over time; there is generally no attempt at behavior modification for profit.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#53

Post by arkades »

mattmanser wrote: post #43
arkades wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m assuming no such thing. I’m saying this is a “have your cake and eat it too” issue. Either you’re accessible to millions or you arent, and that choice comes with benefits and drawbacks. If one can’t handle the drawbacks of being publicly accessible to millions, one should go to great pains to prevent that, rather than lamenting the inevitable - and I do mean inevitable - long tail of jerks. And when I say “run in…

It's ok to be an asshole because it's over the internet? These people wouldn't say what they're saying to others in real life. It's a serious problem with online interactions, especially in the gaming field where people get unreasonably passionate and there's a lot of sexually frustrated young men needing to vent their anger. Hell, I've been an asshole here on HN, I know I have been, it's so much easier to be without…

No, it’s not OK to be an ass because it’s on the Internet. Since I didn’t say that, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t take a jab at straw men. In fact, I didn’t say a word about the people being jerks - but about the practicalities of being, in effect, a celebrity.

When you’re on a platform serving an arbitrarily large number of people, even a vanishingly small percentage of them amount to more toxicity than a single recipient can handle. That’s the asymmetry of celebrity, and has nothing at all to do with whether the toxic behavior is acceptable or not. It’s a large numbers issue.

Dealing with toxic people is a guaranteed consequence of opening yourself up to communication with millions. Yes, it -is- the cost of celebrity, and always has been. It’s just the weird nature of the internet that the nature of “celebrity” has changed.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#55

Post by swivelmaster »

QAPereo wrote: post #52
swivelmaster wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all of the games involved were mtx-based. One was more like "you screwed up the IP I love, die!" edit: Also, it is profoundly unhelpful to the discussion to say what you said, which is basically "Well, what did you expect, a pat on the back?" We're talking here about abuse, not constructive criticism. Here's an analogy: Nobody expects an Oscar for working on Transformers 6, but personally subjecting them to onlin…

What I said was that everything from abuse to rudeness is simply wrong, and I made that point unambiguously, twice. You are right that I think there should be consequences for abusive practices, but reasonable ones, like what I’m doing right now. Making people feel worthless, insulting them, threatening them... is evil. As for the people who send death treats over pure design choices, I have nothing, but sympathy for…

Got it. I appreciate your point, though I don't fully agree about your characterization of f2p games and/or the developers thereof.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#56

Post by IronKettle »

jnordwick wrote: post #46

Yawn. A lot of professions deal with this. I work in high frequency trading, and i get told I'm the Devil by people multiple times a week including major publications. But i love what i do and nobodys unintelligent abuse is going to change that.

You get told to "hang yourself" and told you should "die screaming" or just have someone yelling "cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt" at you multiple times a week?

I used to work for a hedge fund. Mostly people just didn't understand it and were skeptical, but phrased it in a way that gave me an out: "I don't understand how it provides any value to society," or things like that. Nobody ever harassed me online with just "cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt".

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#57

Post by Florin_Andrei »

swivelmaster wrote: post #39

I had a long phone conversation recently with a game industry friend who had the misfortune of being involved in multiple games that became targets of abuse. I had asked him for advice about potentially making some youtube videos about game design, including f2p game design (which I have substantial expertise in). He warned me that depending on the approach, even implying that I thought certain types of games or mone…

As things move away from the real world and towards increased virtualization of everything, it's a lot easier for people to fall prey to "road rage" type of reactions - folks who are otherwise well-behaved and respectable turn into assholes behind the wheel.

Same with the virtual world.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#58

Post by m3mnoch »

arkades wrote: post #6

I don’t understand what forces devs to participate directly in this public discourse. Barring those so small they can’t hire someone to run interference, why precisely are you publicly interacting with your customers? Anyone who works with the mass public, be they cashiers or physicians, knows damn well that the Public is terrible. Don’t give them a hotline into your head.

let me introduce you to mobygames: http://www.mobygames.com/game/xbox-one/disney-infinity-30-ed...

like movies, games have credits. entertainment products (movies, games, music, books, etc.) have traditionally been about following talent around to find more work by them. we're all basically entertainers.

that, and angry gamers can chase down people to yell at. especially the higher you are in the responsibility chain, the easier you are to find. linkedin makes sure of that. resumes and all that. because, you know, game devs want jobs, too.

this often means game developers don't have the choice to not be derided in public. not unless step one to joining a game team is the switch your entire life to "private". delist your home address. everything. and, i know plenty of devs who've had to. we all shrug and say, "man, that sucks."

because the difference between making games and making boring, insurance middleware? nobody really cares about enterprise middleware as craft. nobody wants to do it, much less thinks they can do it better.

EVERYONE passionately thinks/hopes/wishes/wants to make better games than you.

(. . . well, maybe not everyone, but certainly a whole lotta folks)

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#59

Post by vvanders »

arkades wrote: post #30
Pfhreak wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about scale. A good indie game might have hundreds of thousands or millions of players. Is that the same order of magnitude of patients you see?

No, of course it isn’t. But then, I’m pseudonymous or anonymous everywhere, and do my level best to keep my pseudonyms unrelated to one another across multiple platforms. As opposed to letting my patients trivially connect my real name to my various social media channels.

> No, of course it isn’t.

Then maybe it's time to put down the keyboard and listen to the experiences of the people who have found some level of success.

When you've shipped a title that's moderately successful you're more then welcome to come back here and tell us how were doing it all wrong. Until then I find it hard to listen to the advice of someone who can't empathize with what is happening here.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#60

Post by tehwebguy »

djroomba wrote: post #14

I've seen a few indie developers actively antagonize so called gamers. I've seen abusive companies like EA get rightfully called out. So Im skeptical of the depth of the claims, but I believe there are a few crazies. I've ran a few foreign tax information websites, and I got extraordinary death threats very graphic and very detailed. I think the internet really allows the mentally ill to scream for the attention they…

A thousand raging jerks treating random employees like shit because they think the game they made is somehow abuse.

Zero people tweeting about the abuse the employees suffer for being in never-ending crunch time until their studio folds.

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