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House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

nytimes.com

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Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#121

Post by dragonwriter »

dingaling wrote: post #71
rektide wrote: post #54

As Wyden[1] points out, Congress has nearly no information on what impact the FISA program has. How many Americans are targeted already? The military refuses to answer Congress. How many emails & other collections are swept up? The military refuses to answer to Congress. This bill explicitly allows it's use directly against Americans and declares which circumstances the FBI & other agencies need to use warrants and w…

> The military refuses to answer Congress. Pedantically the NSA, FBI and CIA are not 'military' The DIA, NRO and NIMA are.

Correct on the FBI and CIA; NSA, though is a DoD agency headed by a general and conjoined at the head with both the military Cyber Command and the military Central Security Service.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#122

Post by lithos »

saas_co_de wrote: post #96
rektide wrote: post #54

As Wyden[1] points out, Congress has nearly no information on what impact the FISA program has. How many Americans are targeted already? The military refuses to answer Congress. How many emails & other collections are swept up? The military refuses to answer to Congress. This bill explicitly allows it's use directly against Americans and declares which circumstances the FBI & other agencies need to use warrants and w…

> Congress has nearly no information on what impact the FISA program has Apparently it has the impact that a big majority of congress will never vote against it. I wonder why that is?

Voting against it now would look a little like admitting it shouldn't have been voted for in the first place.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#123

Post by loteck »

bgentry wrote: post #41

55 House Democrats, including Pelosi, voted against the USA Rights Act amendment that would have substantially limited the surveillance against US citizens. 65 House Democrats ultimately voted in favor of this bill and giving the Trump admin more unchecked surveillance powers. https://twitter.com/gzornick/status/951501089047764992 http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll016.xml

Your Twitter link shows my representative voted No and your house.gov link says my representative voted Yes. People may want to double check your work here.

Edit: your house.gov link is in fact wrong. This is the correct link. http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll014.xml

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#124

Post by ktsmith »

davidw wrote: post #58
rocmcd wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know if there is a place where representatives put their reasoning behind votes?

You can contact them and ask. They're working for you, after all.

For the most part you'll just get a form letter with little to no information in it. It will also almost certainly be written by a staff member that has little to no experience with the policy matter in question.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#125

Post by bgentry »

loteck wrote: post #123
bgentry wrote: post #41

55 House Democrats, including Pelosi, voted against the USA Rights Act amendment that would have substantially limited the surveillance against US citizens. 65 House Democrats ultimately voted in favor of this bill and giving the Trump admin more unchecked surveillance powers. https://twitter.com/gzornick/status/951501089047764992 http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll016.xml

Your Twitter link shows my representative voted No and your house.gov link says my representative voted Yes. People may want to double check your work here. Edit: your house.gov link is in fact wrong. This is the correct link. http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll014.xml

Edit: your house.gov link is in fact wrong. This is the correct link. http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll014.xml

My Twitter link shows Dems who voted against the USA Rights amendment, and my house.gov link is for the bill itself. It is possible (and in fact likely) that a rep who voted no on the amendment would support the bill without it.

Your house.gov link is for the amendment, so it should reflect the same votes as the image in the tweet.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#126

Post by davidw »

ktsmith wrote: post #124
davidw wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can contact them and ask. They're working for you, after all.

For the most part you'll just get a form letter with little to no information in it. It will also almost certainly be written by a staff member that has little to no experience with the policy matter in question.

Responding to a bunch of people individually doesn't scale, so that's not terribly unreasonable. Still, if you call, it does a couple of things 1) you do find out what they think about the issue 2) they know that their constituents care about the issue.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#127

Post by vuln »

ep103 wrote: post #119
CWuestefeld wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time this comes up, I'm again surprised how many people expect that Democrats will somehow have better policy for privacy. Folks, it ain't so. The Democrats won't protect us in this regard any more than the Republicans will.

The parent comment literally shows that Democrats protect us for privacy more than Republicans do. 125 Democrats voted to add privacy protections, 55 did not. By Contrast 58 Republicans voted to add privacy protections, 178 did not. By definition, that means Democrats were better about privacy protections. Stop peddling this both-parties-are-the-same nonsense. Its amazing this can even be said with a straight face du…

The last President was a Democrat and he sure didn't care about American's Privacy even though he used it on his campaign trail to get elected... Please don't act like _only_ Republicans do this...

From my comment down thread

>Unfortunately Obama almost quadrupled funding to these agencies[1]. Throughout his administration he allowed the Alphabet boys to try and steal more american's data without warrants (See FBI v Apple and the FBI attempting to get access to your browser history with out warrants)[2][3]. Obama even EXPANDED surveillance on his way out of office[4]. Obama also said he was pro whistle blowers we all know what happened to Chelsea.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/surveillance-in-the-obama-era-1... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/29/apple-vs-fbi-all-you-need-to... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-w... [4] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/01/obama-expands-surveill...

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#128

Post by whatshisface »

ep103 wrote: post #119
CWuestefeld wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time this comes up, I'm again surprised how many people expect that Democrats will somehow have better policy for privacy. Folks, it ain't so. The Democrats won't protect us in this regard any more than the Republicans will.

The parent comment literally shows that Democrats protect us for privacy more than Republicans do. 125 Democrats voted to add privacy protections, 55 did not. By Contrast 58 Republicans voted to add privacy protections, 178 did not. By definition, that means Democrats were better about privacy protections. Stop peddling this both-parties-are-the-same nonsense. Its amazing this can even be said with a straight face du…

Both parties are the same in that in neither case should "party" be taken as sufficient evidence of someone being worthy of office. It would improve the quality of your votes if you ignored party entirely and forced yourself to find out what your representatives actually believed.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#129

Post by loteck »

bgentry wrote: post #125
loteck wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your Twitter link shows my representative voted No and your house.gov link says my representative voted Yes. People may want to double check your work here. Edit: your house.gov link is in fact wrong. This is the correct link. http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll014.xml

Edit: your house.gov link is in fact wrong. This is the correct link. http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll014.xml My Twitter link shows Dems who voted against the USA Rights amendment, and my house.gov link is for the bill itself. It is possible (and in fact likely) that a rep who voted no on the amendment would support the bill without it. Your house.gov link is for the amendment, so it should reflect the same votes…

The twitter link discusses no votes on the Amash amendment. Your house link is not the vote on the Amash amendment.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#130

Post by bgentry »

loteck wrote: post #129
bgentry wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: your house.gov link is in fact wrong. This is the correct link. http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll014.xml My Twitter link shows Dems who voted against the USA Rights amendment, and my house.gov link is for the bill itself. It is possible (and in fact likely) that a rep who voted no on the amendment would support the bill without it. Your house.gov link is for the amendment, so it should reflect the same votes…

The twitter link discusses no votes on the Amash amendment. Your house link is not the vote on the Amash amendment.

Maybe I worded my reply poorly, because that is exactly what I was trying to say. Let's try this again.

Dems who voted against the Amash/USA Rights amendment: https://twitter.com/gzornick/status/951501089047764992

All votes for the Amash/USA Rights amendment: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll014.xml

All votes on S. 139, aka the main bill: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll016.xml

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