Live data from Hacker News

Pineapple Fund Offers $4M Matching Grant to MAPS for MDMA Research

maps.org

61–70 of 71 posts

Re: Pineapple Fund Offers $4M Matching Grant to MAPS for MDMA Research

#61
post #30

This is fantastic. I recently helped a few of the NGOs selected by Pineapple get their tech together to accept the funds. It gave me a chance to learn more (as much is public) about the fund and love hearing about bolder moves like this to make such an impact. Being close to the NGOs that did receive the funds, I can say first hand just how much of a difference this macro-funding is making for real orgs that care so…

Thanks Jim! Let me know if there's anything I can do to make things easier for the NGOs! Some days, I still wake up and I'm a little bit astonished about the impact that my bitcoins can have. I certainly would've never predicted this when I first got into bitcoin.

do the funds sent to these recipients remain btc and are leveraged against as an asset or are they converted to fiat?

Re: Pineapple Fund Offers $4M Matching Grant to MAPS for MDMA Research

#62
post #41

Usually MDMA has the backlash of lowering the amount of serotonin release in your brain the days after you take it, which makes you feel down. The so-called tuesday blues. So how come these people in these treatments aren't getting more depressed after their few hours of excitement?

> Usually MDMA has the backlash of lowering the amount of serotonin release in your brain the days after you take it, which makes you feel down. The so-called tuesday blues Usually MDMA has absolutely no observable backlash (it may still harm your brain though, even if you don't feel it, I don't know if it will or not) if you don't take it more often than once in 3 months (or 1 month if you insist, but absolutely nev…

Here is the source of the most of this knowledge by the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlMxTpONKT0 Adam at PsychedSubstance does pretty good job educating people about how to do the stuff right without getting your brains fried. His advices do work great, it would surely be awesome if the reserachers could validate and/or improve them scientifically (or at least make use of them practically so nobody will actually get sad or experience any other adverse effects anyway).

Re: Pineapple Fund Offers $4M Matching Grant to MAPS for MDMA Research

#63
post #29

This seems like evidence towards Gwern's theory that pineapple fund is a retired dark net drug dealer...

It could be, but I think the purpose of a fund like this should be to target organizations that are 'unpalatable' to other donation sources, and MAPS is a great example.

Oh yeah, I'm all for it. Just noticing.

Re: Pineapple Fund Offers $4M Matching Grant to MAPS for MDMA Research

#64
post #41

Usually MDMA has the backlash of lowering the amount of serotonin release in your brain the days after you take it, which makes you feel down. The so-called tuesday blues. So how come these people in these treatments aren't getting more depressed after their few hours of excitement?

> Usually MDMA has the backlash of lowering the amount of serotonin release in your brain the days after you take it, which makes you feel down. The so-called tuesday blues Usually MDMA has absolutely no observable backlash (it may still harm your brain though, even if you don't feel it, I don't know if it will or not) if you don't take it more often than once in 3 months (or 1 month if you insist, but absolutely nev…

You kind of contradict yourself by saying there is no backlash and then giving a list of supplements to reduce the backlash...

It's proven that your brain down-regulates serotonin after taking MDMA, which can last a couple of days (or even longer). What's not proven is those supplements you mention. They are the go-to advice you find on websites like rollsafe etc. but that's all based on shaky science (small control groups, non peer-reviewed papers, tests on mice that might not reflect on humans etc.). Basically MDMA has not been researched well enough on humans (so thanks Pineapple fund for improving this situation). There's also no evidence that supports 'afterglow' and the supplements you mention are mainly antioxidants (and magnesium to reduce jaw clenching) that will reduce the oxidation in the brain, but doesn't affect the serotonin levels. Another good way to reduce oxidation is to keep your body cooled (but hard to do at parties). Taking 5-HTP the days after might have an effect on serotonin levels, but again, research is lacking.

Re: Pineapple Fund Offers $4M Matching Grant to MAPS for MDMA Research

#65
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Usually MDMA has the backlash of lowering the amount of serotonin release in your brain the days after you take it, which makes you feel down. The so-called tuesday blues Usually MDMA has absolutely no observable backlash (it may still harm your brain though, even if you don't feel it, I don't know if it will or not) if you don't take it more often than once in 3 months (or 1 month if you insist, but absolutely nev…

You kind of contradict yourself by saying there is no backlash and then giving a list of supplements to reduce the backlash... It's proven that your brain down-regulates serotonin after taking MDMA, which can last a couple of days (or even longer). What's not proven is those supplements you mention. They are the go-to advice you find on websites like rollsafe etc. but that's all based on shaky science (small control…

> You kind of contradict yourself by saying there is no backlash and then giving a list of supplements to reduce the backlash...

What I am saying is there will certainly be some backlash if you don't do anything to prevent it but you can (or you can not - sure I can't say these advices will help everybody, perhaps some of these may even harm somebody if they have some specific contraindications) effectively prevent about 99% of it. Perhaps my grammar is not perfect but I hope the idea is fairly easy to get.

> What's not proven is those supplements you mention.

Sure, not proven any credible way. Hopefully the researchers will read this thread, take these in consideration and prove or disprove some parts.

> tests on mice

In fact there have been quite enough "testing" on humans though it's neither scientifically clean (no double-blind placebo-controlled trials, no large control groups observed, no measurements etc) nor official enough for obvious reasons. Everything is based on personal experience people share anonymously, but believe me - though not formally credible nor systematic this data is very far from being entirely mythical and useless. It's absolutely worth testing by researchers we are talking about and, well... by unaccredited enthusiasts who are going to to engage in the research on their own perhaps.

> There's also no evidence that supports 'afterglow'

Sure, no evidence, just reportedly-systematic experience of anonymous individuals. Let's just say it may cause this state, not that it necessarily will.

> and magnesium to reduce jaw clenching

Magnesium is not just to reduce jaw clenching, it's also an NDMA antagonist, known to prevent amphetamine-type drugs tolerance. And it is also an important electrolyte that you may loose if you dink, sewat and pee excessively.

> keep your body cooled (but hard to do at parties)

MDMA is, arguably, much more fun and much more safe to take at home together with just the one you love. I especially discourage taking it at parties and especially mixing it with alcohol.

> but doesn't affect the serotonin levels... Taking 5-HTP the days after...

That's why I recommend L-tryptophan. Tough less-famous than 5-HTP (5-Hydroxytryptophan) for a number of reasons, it can be considered a more natural and more safe alternative to 5-HTP. L-tryptophan is the essential amino-acid naturally meant to be consumed regularly (it occurs naturally in many foods and also available in pure form as an over-the-counter supplement) your body uses to produce the amounts of 5-HTP (and then serotonin) it needs from it.

Also St. John's wort is known to upregulate serotonin receptors and increase of serotonin (!!!up to potentially life-threatening levels if combined with other serotonin-boosting substances so never take it together with MDMA, only the day after!!!).

Piracetam and emoxypine are not only antioxidants (in fact I don't even know if piracetam is an antioxidant at all) but nootropics that may improve brain blood flow, oxygen consumption and synaptic transmission, modulate the receptor complexes of the brain membranes by increasing their binding ability, stabilize biomembranes (i.e. membrane structures of blood cells - erythrocytes and thrombocytes during their haemolysis or mechanical injury accompanied by the formation of free radicals), have neuroprotective and anti-inflammatory action, change the monoamine level and increases the dopamine content in the brain etc.

> but again, research is lacking.

That's why it's so great to read about the ladies and gentlemen at the Pineapple Fund going to fund the research and that MAPS is undertaking it. And that's why it's so important to share every potentially valuable idea on the subject with them so they can use it in the research.

There are 2 reasons I am writing this here:

1. I hope this can help people (though I am not sure it will help everybody) to save their health and prevent unpleasant experiences (as far as I've heard overwhelming majority of people who try MDMA experiences rather severe backlashes - this suggests they are doing it wrong and cause damage to their brains).

2. I hope this can provide the researches with ideas to start with when looking for safety measures to be proven scientifically. Surely "making sure that your schedule is clear of obligations the next day" is always a great idea but I think the stuff I've described above (including the previous commentary) should better be used too.

Re: Pineapple Fund Offers $4M Matching Grant to MAPS for MDMA Research

#66
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all charities do that, his point is moot. Or if the most effective charities do that, his point is moot. Which charities do this, and why should we believe they're the most effective?

> and why should we believe they're the most effective? Whoever gave you that idea? That practice has nothing to do with how the world is changed. I believe most charities practice this, I saw a presentation on it with a bunch of accredited investors, don't have the source. You can't will your alternate reality into existence.

> > and why should we believe they're the most effective? > Whoever gave you that idea?

1. This quesiton makes no sense. 2. The question is how high the returns are--do they exceed the returns of investment. That would depend on the effectiveness of the charity.

> I believe most charities practice this, I saw a presentation on it with a bunch of accredited investors, don't have the source.

Charities report their opex. I've never seen one listed as 95%. Most are > You can't will your alternate reality into existence.

So...you made some claims. I asked for evidence. You refused. I provided counter-evidence.

I'm pretty sure you're just trolling now. Or arguing in bad faith, at minimum.

Re: Pineapple Fund Offers $4M Matching Grant to MAPS for MDMA Research

#67
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You kind of contradict yourself by saying there is no backlash and then giving a list of supplements to reduce the backlash... It's proven that your brain down-regulates serotonin after taking MDMA, which can last a couple of days (or even longer). What's not proven is those supplements you mention. They are the go-to advice you find on websites like rollsafe etc. but that's all based on shaky science (small control…

> You kind of contradict yourself by saying there is no backlash and then giving a list of supplements to reduce the backlash... What I am saying is there will certainly be some backlash if you don't do anything to prevent it but you can (or you can not - sure I can't say these advices will help everybody, perhaps some of these may even harm somebody if they have some specific contraindications) effectively prevent a…

Piracetam is not approved by the FDA for any medical use and it is not permitted to be sold as a dietary supplement, so it can neither be prescribed nor sold OTC. It may be possible to import it, but that's legally questionable; then again, if you're using MDMA, you're not concerned with questionable legality.

Re: Pineapple Fund Offers $4M Matching Grant to MAPS for MDMA Research

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Usually MDMA has the backlash of lowering the amount of serotonin release in your brain the days after you take it, which makes you feel down. The so-called tuesday blues Usually MDMA has absolutely no observable backlash (it may still harm your brain though, even if you don't feel it, I don't know if it will or not) if you don't take it more often than once in 3 months (or 1 month if you insist, but absolutely nev…

Here is the source of the most of this knowledge by the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlMxTpONKT0 Adam at PsychedSubstance does pretty good job educating people about how to do the stuff right without getting your brains fried. His advices do work great, it would surely be awesome if the reserachers could validate and/or improve them scientifically (or at least make use of them practically so nobody will actua…

How would you know that his advices (sic) work "great" without any research?

Re: Pineapple Fund Offers $4M Matching Grant to MAPS for MDMA Research

#69
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could select for people who were not subject to an actual explosion?

If their target audience is PTSD patients, they are looking at a primarily veterans as participants. It's pretty hard to determine if a veteran was exposed to an explosion or not.

An enormous number of people suffer from PTSD who are not veterans. People who have been raped, witnessed crimes, etc. could all suffer PTSD. Trauma can be almost anything if it causes a negative impact (e.g., depression, anxiety) in the future, and persons suffering from depression or anxiety as a result of such trauma would likely be diagnosed with comorbid PTSD.

Re: Pineapple Fund Offers $4M Matching Grant to MAPS for MDMA Research

#70
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You kind of contradict yourself by saying there is no backlash and then giving a list of supplements to reduce the backlash... What I am saying is there will certainly be some backlash if you don't do anything to prevent it but you can (or you can not - sure I can't say these advices will help everybody, perhaps some of these may even harm somebody if they have some specific contraindications) effectively prevent a…

Piracetam is not approved by the FDA for any medical use and it is not permitted to be sold as a dietary supplement, so it can neither be prescribed nor sold OTC. It may be possible to import it, but that's legally questionable; then again, if you're using MDMA, you're not concerned with questionable legality.

In this case the researchers ought to test it too so it could be approved by the FDA together with MDMA because piracetam alone makes HUGE difference. If you are going to take MDMA and can choose only one supplement to use to protect your brain from adverse effects - that is to be piracetam (of course something better may exist but I have never heard of anything better so far). I can't confirm this scientifically but I could bet whoever has tried it (or at least the majority of them) will tell you this is true.

By the way I live in Europe and have been taking piracetam (it is an approved medicine available at every drugstore here, over-the-counter in some countries, on prescription in others) every day (making just occasional pauses for a month or two) during about 15 years already and man it's just so great I don't want to live in a country where I can't get it easily. In my opinion (based on my own long-term systematic experience with it) piracetam is an essential for brain fitness, good quality of life, physical, creative, spiritual, educational and professional self-realization. And I have never had a headache during these years (except slight headakes that I had a couple of times after having drank a way too much alcohol) although I used to have headache almost every day when I was a child and wasn't taking piracetam!

Post reply on HN