Bitcoin is no long the only game in crypto-currency town • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin is no long the only game in crypto-currency town

#41

Post by Klathmon » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

ExactoKnight wrote: post #7

Bitcoin 10 minute block generation times is an inherent problem that unless changed, will doom the protocol to its eventual death. It's like trying to make a 56k modem work, when broadband is available. When litecoin came around a few years ago these were abstract problems, but now that transactions with $10 fees take 36 hours to confirm... the issues are real and a switch needs to happen. Lightning network or not, t…

I know this probably sounds like a stuck record at this point, but Lightning Network can solve this, and will relegate the actual blockchain as an arbitration/settlement layer where the 10 minute blocktime isn't a problem.

Re: Bitcoin is no long the only game in crypto-currency town

#42

Post by cup-of-tea » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

grey-area wrote: post #17

ericb wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That problem isn't a result of the 10 minute blocks. A 0-confirmation transaction normally is just fine. These are available on Bitcoin Cash.

A 0-confirmation transaction normally is just fine. It's really not fine at all. The competition is full confirmation transactions on a debit card or bank account in seconds with much lower or zero fees.

> The competition is full confirmation transactions on a debit card or bank account in seconds with much lower or zero fees.

No. Those do not compete with trustless digital money. If you think that then you don't understand the point of Bitcoin. It's like saying landlines are better than mobiles because you can never misplace them.

Re: Bitcoin is no long the only game in crypto-currency town

#43

Post by Klathmon » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 6:24 PM UTC

deadlycrayon wrote: post #27

innoprenuer wrote: post #25

"Even Facebook has reportedly started looking into creating a token. Should the world’s biggest social network ever make that move, bitcoin’s days as the leading crypto-currency would almost certainly be numbered" > this is a paradox, blockchain technology's best use case is decentralization of data (and power from companies like facebook). And if Facebook issues crypto coin and it starts dominating the market (not n…

I agree with you, but that's idealistic. See: Ripple ( https://ripple.com/ )

For all the talk of Ripple being centralized, they aren't by design, and they have a plan in place to reduce and eventually eliminate that centralization (to a point).

They decided that it would be a good idea to start centralized, then over time wane themselves out of the "validation" of transactions until it's in the hands of a diverse group of validator nodes where no one person has the ability to change things.

Re: Bitcoin is no long the only game in crypto-currency town

#44

Post by cromon » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 6:24 PM UTC

louismerlin wrote: post #22

I recommend you check out https://raiblocks.net if you're looking for a currency that could compete with Bitcoin as a means of payment. The tech is smart as hell.

No one ever mentions the insane amount of time it takes to sync their chain.. I'd say that is a big stopping point for a lot of people.. I've been trying for weeks to catch up. (Where other wallets sync in a reasonable time)

Re: Bitcoin is no long the only game in crypto-currency town

#45

Post by gondo » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

wozz wrote: post #13

I wish we could stop posting articles under a paywall

simply disable javascript

Re: Bitcoin is no long the only game in crypto-currency town

#46

Post by bootlooped » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

seanp2k2 wrote: post #30

grey-area wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 0-confirmation transaction normally is just fine. It's really not fine at all. The competition is full confirmation transactions on a debit card or bank account in seconds with much lower or zero fees.

>seconds At PoS systems in the US, it's typical to have to wait 30+ seconds for chip cards to go through. I'm guessing that this has more to do with the PoS system / slow internet connection for the store / slow network on the back-end card network, but cryptocurrencies would need to be sub-minute to be ~acceptable for in-person retail transactions. Until that is solved, until cryptocoins are more than speculative se…

I have absolutely never had to wait 30+ seconds for a credit card transaction that used the chip, so I don't agree with your assessment of that amount of time being typical. Generally, for me, I think it takes about 3-5 seconds from the time I confirm the dollar amount to the time the confirmation comes back.

Re: Bitcoin is no long the only game in crypto-currency town

#47

Post by vesak » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

wozz wrote: post #13

I wish we could stop posting articles under a paywall

What you should actually wish it that payment to such publishers would be so easy that you wouldn't need to think about it.

Re: Bitcoin is no long the only game in crypto-currency town

#48

Post by louismerlin » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

cromon wrote: post #44

louismerlin wrote: post #22

I recommend you check out https://raiblocks.net if you're looking for a currency that could compete with Bitcoin as a means of payment. The tech is smart as hell.

No one ever mentions the insane amount of time it takes to sync their chain.. I'd say that is a big stopping point for a lot of people.. I've been trying for weeks to catch up. (Where other wallets sync in a reasonable time)

True. From what I read, they are working on a way to fix that. It is a major issue at the moment.

Re: Bitcoin is no long the only game in crypto-currency town

#49

Post by dlubarov » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

seanp2k2 wrote: post #30

grey-area wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 0-confirmation transaction normally is just fine. It's really not fine at all. The competition is full confirmation transactions on a debit card or bank account in seconds with much lower or zero fees.

>seconds At PoS systems in the US, it's typical to have to wait 30+ seconds for chip cards to go through. I'm guessing that this has more to do with the PoS system / slow internet connection for the store / slow network on the back-end card network, but cryptocurrencies would need to be sub-minute to be ~acceptable for in-person retail transactions. Until that is solved, until cryptocoins are more than speculative se…

30s isn't really typical; the average is in the ballpark of 10s. When I worked at Square we got our average down to 4.2s [1]. Modern Verifone terminals seem pretty quick as well. Long term, "instant" contactless will probably become the norm (though it's taking hold very slowly in the US).

[1] https://squareup.com/townsquare/weve-chipped-away-at-emv-tra...

Re: Bitcoin is no long the only game in crypto-currency town

#50

Post by sf_rob » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

ericb wrote: post #9

ExactoKnight wrote: post #7

Bitcoin 10 minute block generation times is an inherent problem that unless changed, will doom the protocol to its eventual death. It's like trying to make a 56k modem work, when broadband is available. When litecoin came around a few years ago these were abstract problems, but now that transactions with $10 fees take 36 hours to confirm... the issues are real and a switch needs to happen. Lightning network or not, t…

That problem isn't a result of the 10 minute blocks. A 0-confirmation transaction normally is just fine. These are available on Bitcoin Cash.

0-conf isn't fine in many trustless scenarios with Bitcoin because of Replace By Fee.