House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits • Hacker News Board

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#21

Post by _m8fo » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 5:24 PM UTC

epmaybe wrote: post #8

I had a discussion with my mother regarding surveillance and privacy and how they relate to safety. I feel like she understands that surveillance when used in a nefarious manner can be detrimental to individual freedoms, but is pro surveillance regardless. This is because she believes that the benefits of keeping others safe outweighs the potential for misuse. How can I help her understand why people fight for privac…

When has an average American been severely and personally harmed from surveillance? If you can't answer that without caveats then you have no chance of convincing her in my opinion.

In other words, you have to prove that the harms of surveillance outweigh the nebulous sense of protection an average person already has regarding survillance.

It's trivial to come up with examples of how survillance is good for an average person in regular life - - see public camera catching criminals, dash cams, etc.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#22

Post by tootie » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 5:27 PM UTC

coldcode wrote: post #14

The President actually tweeted two incompatible positions this morning. Guess they picked the one they wanted.

His opposition to this bill is based on nonsense, but it would be wonderfully ironic if he used it as the basis for veto.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#23

Post by mtgx » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

FFS New York Times, can you not make EVERY GOD DAMN ARTICLE about Trump and distract everyone from the main issue here?

More than half of this article is about Trump's tweets. How about naming and shaming all the Republicans and Democrats that voted to extend the surveillance law instead?

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#24

Post by wtf_is_up » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 5:32 PM UTC

coldcode wrote: post #14

The President actually tweeted two incompatible positions this morning. Guess they picked the one they wanted.

He met with Rand Paul last night who is the staunchest opposition to this bill.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#25

Post by jonny_eh » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #17

epmaybe wrote: post #8

I had a discussion with my mother regarding surveillance and privacy and how they relate to safety. I feel like she understands that surveillance when used in a nefarious manner can be detrimental to individual freedoms, but is pro surveillance regardless. This is because she believes that the benefits of keeping others safe outweighs the potential for misuse. How can I help her understand why people fight for privac…

Just phase it this way: Imagine if the party in power used state surveillance to monitor their opponent and the people who support them. The whole infrastructure is turn-key authoritarian, there's literally nothing logistical stopping this, only a handshake agreement not to. This should concern people regardless of their political affiliation or party loyalty.

The problem is that people don't want to give up power while they have it, even if it means their opponent gets it next, and even if there's no next-next because your opponent uses it to ensure you never take power again.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#26

Post by jonny_eh » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

tootie wrote: post #22

coldcode wrote: post #14

The President actually tweeted two incompatible positions this morning. Guess they picked the one they wanted.

His opposition to this bill is based on nonsense, but it would be wonderfully ironic if he used it as the basis for veto.

He'd never veto anything, he'd have to read the bill to veto it.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#27

Post by wtf_is_up » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

xir78 wrote: post #3

Turmp should be happy about this, it will be useful in cracking down on citizens and opponents who criticize him.

The precedence has been set for using FISA against your political opponents. I agree, this will be great for him.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#28

Post by anon11082016 » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

epmaybe wrote: post #8

I had a discussion with my mother regarding surveillance and privacy and how they relate to safety. I feel like she understands that surveillance when used in a nefarious manner can be detrimental to individual freedoms, but is pro surveillance regardless. This is because she believes that the benefits of keeping others safe outweighs the potential for misuse. How can I help her understand why people fight for privac…

Just show her what they did to Donald Trump. Via a BS dossier, they wire tapped him and his associates.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#29

Post by sanjeetsuhag » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

wtf_is_up wrote: post #24

coldcode wrote: post #14

The President actually tweeted two incompatible positions this morning. Guess they picked the one they wanted.

He met with Rand Paul last night who is the staunchest opposition to this bill.

Also, this topic was discussed today morning on Fox and Friends.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#30

Post by blackrose » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

> Mr. Trump, who is known to watch Fox News while he is tweeting, posted his tweet shortly after a Fox News legal analyst appealed directly to the president during a Thursday morning segment about the coming House vote. The analyst, Andrew Napolitano, turned to television cameras and said, “Mr. President, this is not the way to go.” He added that Mr. Trump’s “woes” began with surveillance.

lol.

But seriously we need someone in the oval office who feels strongly about protecting the privacy of Americans (and everyone else!). Trump is just another one in the line to rubber-stamp this. Not holding my breath though...