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The Brutal Lifecycle of JavaScript Frameworks

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61–70 of 128 posts

Re: The Brutal Lifecycle of JavaScript Frameworks

#61

It is not really a brutal lifecycle at all, to be honest. Everyone loves a good rant about how fast the JS frameworks burn out, but it is not frameworks that burn out, but rather: In the 8+ years since Iphone/Android duo made a HUGE change in how we consume web content, we went from: - Having static resolution for websites to dynamically changing site resolutions - Having static HTML renders with some dynamic bits sp…

> And I could go on and on and on and on.

True, it's enough to say "websites became big and slow". Additionally you can say "now we are after cross-platform native apps - set money aside for a device upgrade".

Re: The Brutal Lifecycle of JavaScript Frameworks

#62

About to make an App using React(and react native?) Up until this point, I usually would make most things from scratch and pull in libraries sparce. No big deal because my previous programs didnt need to. (Self taught programmer for 11 years.) For the next 3 months, I'll be working on this almost alone. Is it worth using some of my resources to hire a React developer? Also, this topic implies React will be gone in ab…

> Up until this point, I usually would make most things from scratch and pull in libraries sparce. No big deal because my previous programs didnt need to. (Self taught programmer for 11 years.)

You can still do this with React. Some of the most-common general-purpose libraries for working with React aren't that big and could be written from scratch pretty easily. If you recognize when something's entire purpose is apparently to replicate OO features while staying "purely" functional by jumping through a series of awkward hoops, you can recall that the language you're writing in does, in fact, support OOP, and avoid the library altogether by using built-in language features (I keep seeing this in the React ecosystem and it drives me nuts).

Probably use Redux because everyone and everything expects that you are. It's easy to understand if you ignore their bad terminology and go in knowing it's just an event/messaging system, more or less. Action = event. "Action creator" = anything that dispatches an event. Reducer = your event handlers. Exactly what you'd expect from an event system with centralized event handling. Utterly mundane and non-magical. Figure out how to leverage "combineReducers" to keep your file structure sane and just go. The closest thing it has to magic going on is that when an event comes through it checks to see whether any of the refs in your "state tree" changed as a result of that event, and triggers re-renders on relevant connected view(s) (React views, in your case). That's it. Note that with a very little creativity one can decouple one's Redux code and most/all of one's business logic into its own library to share it between React and React Native.

If you use React Native, you're in for a treat if you're used to fully native cross-platform dev. It really does a great job of rounding off the many, many rough corners on Android that make it such a pain-in-the-ass to work with. Warning: the ecosystem's kinda nutty and does a bad job of keeping in sync, so avoid dependencies that directly target React Native as much as possible if you want to ever be able to, say, upgrade your React Native version without breaking everything. Pure JS libs that have no truck with React Native, good. Libs that add narrowly-scoped extra native integration for RN, usually good. Mostly JS libs that add on to React Native itself, typically just a disaster waiting to happen, no matter how nice they seem at first.

Oh, and use Typescript. For the love of god use Typescript. Just start the project with it, and never look back.

Re: The Brutal Lifecycle of JavaScript Frameworks

#63

One of the things I don't think it accounts for in talking about the downfall of something like jQuery is that as time goes on, the questions have already been asked. So of course there's going to be less questions asked about jQuery in 2017 versus 2009, because if I need to figure out how to select elements based on an attribute rather than a class or id, it's already there.

Similarly, JQuery questions remain higher than the other ones in that chart; does that mean JQuery remains popular, or that JQuery is hard and people need a lot of help for it?

Speaking for myself, it was often easier to copy / paste SO answers (in jquery) than try and figure things out for myself. I can imagine a lot of beginning developer start with jQuery and go to advanced frameworks after that.

Re: The Brutal Lifecycle of JavaScript Frameworks

#64

It is not really a brutal lifecycle at all, to be honest. Everyone loves a good rant about how fast the JS frameworks burn out, but it is not frameworks that burn out, but rather: In the 8+ years since Iphone/Android duo made a HUGE change in how we consume web content, we went from: - Having static resolution for websites to dynamically changing site resolutions - Having static HTML renders with some dynamic bits sp…

(heads up, you need have a blank space between lines in HN to render them on different lines)

I completely agree. Many people claim the web is overly complex, but then go back into the C++ world where you need a build tool to build your makefile which builds your project using cross compilation on a handful of platforms.

I like to remind people that 10 years ago Android didn't exist, streaming video was still only just becoming a thing, and the iPhone had just been released and wouldn't have an "app store" for another 6 months.

There have been several massive changes to the web and to computers and how we use them in that time. It only makes sense that we will use different frameworks and paradigms to create applications.

Re: The Brutal Lifecycle of JavaScript Frameworks

#65

As an aside from the interesting article, does any one else find it pretty scary and privacy invading that stackoverflow think it's ok to match our IP addresses to the company we work in? It seems like a massive invasion of privacy (which I guess lots of websites are doing). But to me that SO can so casually mention the mass surveillance and privacy invasion they're doing without thinking that there's anything wrong…

Your IP is public, so you can't hide it; privacy invasion is a non-argument there.

IP data retention, on the other hand, will be interesting. On the one hand, law enforcement wants to have ISPs and companies to track and remember those, for future investigations. But on the other hand, privacy advocates want that kind of data to not be stored at all.

Re: The Brutal Lifecycle of JavaScript Frameworks

#66
> Stack Overflow Trends lets us examine how each of these technologies has been asked about over time.

So what are we measuring here? It seems obvious that more popular frameworks would generate more questions, but so would:

- Newer ones which not as many people are familiar with.

- Poorly-designed ones which lots of people nevertheless use.

- Ones which disproportionately attract inexperienced devs.

Re: The Brutal Lifecycle of JavaScript Frameworks

#67

As an aside from the interesting article, does any one else find it pretty scary and privacy invading that stackoverflow think it's ok to match our IP addresses to the company we work in? It seems like a massive invasion of privacy (which I guess lots of websites are doing). But to me that SO can so casually mention the mass surveillance and privacy invasion they're doing without thinking that there's anything wrong…

Your IP is public, so you can't hide it; privacy invasion is a non-argument there. IP data retention, on the other hand, will be interesting. On the one hand, law enforcement wants to have ISPs and companies to track and remember those, for future investigations. But on the other hand, privacy advocates want that kind of data to not be stored at all.

It's not the IP address that's the problem, it's that they're processing personally identifiable information about their users in a way they haven't asked permission for and is not related to the service they're providing.

Here's the UK's ICO guidance for what you can process, as far as I can tell they've got no lawful basis for trying to match a user's IP address to a company without the user asking them to.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da...

Re: The Brutal Lifecycle of JavaScript Frameworks

#68
post #39
post #16

The PHP and Vue correlation can at least partly be explained by the fact that Laravel, a popular PHP web framework, has first-hand support for Vue and installs Vue by default in projects bootstrapped with their cli tool.

WordPress.com But Vues triumphal march starts before Laravel or WordPress.

My understanding is that this tweet https://twitter.com/taylorotwell/status/590281695581982720?l... kickstarted the Vue popularity. Taylor Otwell is the creator of Laravel.

Here's Evan You (creator of Vue) https://youtu.be/D_z-RAweP1k?t=3m9s talking about the tweet.

Re: The Brutal Lifecycle of JavaScript Frameworks

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your IP is public, so you can't hide it; privacy invasion is a non-argument there. IP data retention, on the other hand, will be interesting. On the one hand, law enforcement wants to have ISPs and companies to track and remember those, for future investigations. But on the other hand, privacy advocates want that kind of data to not be stored at all.

It's not the IP address that's the problem, it's that they're processing personally identifiable information about their users in a way they haven't asked permission for and is not related to the service they're providing. Here's the UK's ICO guidance for what you can process, as far as I can tell they've got no lawful basis for trying to match a user's IP address to a company without the user asking them to. https:/…

I skimmed that link and couldn't figure out what they mean by "processing". (It's related to compliance with a law, so I assume that the common sense meaning of a word isn't necessarily what is meant.) Do you understand what they mean by "processing" in this context?

It seems like you're saying that analyzing IP addresses a user connected from in order to determine their likely employer is against the UK's GDPR guidance, even if the data is released only in aggregate (but that it might be fine to keep that IP data since perhaps there are other uses for it which would be legitimate). Is that your understanding?

Re: The Brutal Lifecycle of JavaScript Frameworks

#70
Alternative hypothesis:

Brand new frameworks have zero docs and zero questions in Stack Overflow. Older frameworks have (hopefully) complete docs and a library of SO questions. In between you get a gradient.

I'm just not convinced that the data they're looking at means what they think it means.

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