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Courts: Violating a Website’s Terms of Service Is Not a Crime

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121–130 of 174 posts

Re: Courts: Violating a Website’s Terms of Service Is Not a Crime

#121
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pirated copy doesn’t need to equate to a lost sale in order for it to be stealing. You took something of value that was created or owned by someone else. Whether it’s a physical or nonphysical good is completely beside the point.

#this I can't believe people here don't think it's piracy or stealing, just because it doesn't deprive someone else of their object (as in the case of a physical good). If I took your journal entries from your room, and copied them all, and put them on the internet - that's not stealing, because I returned the journal? No, that's still theft. If someone stole bread, how would you feel about It? Screw that person righ…

"If I took your journal entries from your room, and copied them all, and put them on the internet - that's not stealing, because I returned the journal? No, that's still theft."

Yes, the original taking of the journal is literally depriving someone else of their object. A future return of the object clearly does not mean the original deprivation never happened. The point you're making about unauthorized distribution of private thoughts is about violation of privacy. Violating a person's privacy certainly is a bad thing. Theft is a different bad thing. (The analogy you're looking for is copying someone's paywalled blog)

"If someone stole bread, how would you feel about It? Screw that person right? What if they were stealing the bread from someone who would never notice the loss, and it was for their hungry kids? Suddenly it seems more reasonable."

You're trying to move the goalposts by conflating the literal deprivation of objects with copying information that all parties are trying to proliferate. The emotional appeal, besides not being as agreeable as you think, has nothing to do with the issue. A plentiful, though limited resource is just that. (Yes, one of the many reasons theft is bad is because it invariably angers the thieved and violates their sense of justice - the difference in argument is postulating the emotional impact of an action vs instructing the reader to feel a certain emotion).

Re: Courts: Violating a Website’s Terms of Service Is Not a Crime

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be illegal for companies like Twitter to forbid this. Users should be free to access their data, and free to use any tool to do so. The revered network effect is anti consumer and it must be broken. This is the one regulation that could save a nation from FB, Twitter, Instagram and their ilk. Any politician to run on this could shoot somebody in the middle of a crowded street without losing my support.

> Any politician to run on this could shoot somebody in the middle of a crowded street without losing my support. That might be a bit overdone, but I get your point.

I'd say it entirely depends on who they're shooting.

Re: Courts: Violating a Website’s Terms of Service Is Not a Crime

#124
post #93
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piracy isn't stealing... and besides, no one can afford the games anyway... besides, you should see what the industry does to the artists in the first place... The gentleman doth protest too much?

Let's try to flip the perspectives. Let's say you created a game. Let's pretend you want to make money off of it, because you put quite some time into it. Time you could have used to make money by other means. How would you go about it?

I know why people pirate, having pirated a lot of software and games in my time, so I won't really feel bad about it. Most people will buy the game if they can, but the world economics are such that for 90% of your potential user base, 60$ represent an insurmountable financial investment. Which is partly why Steam with its frequent discounts and region-specific pricing is so effective at combating piracy.

So yeah, if I wanted to make money with games, I wouldn't. But if I really really wanted to, I would try to get popular, then start a kickstarter and open a patreon. Make sure people can support my art with as little as they can.

As just one example - consider game rentals. Consoles have incredibly low piracy rates, but a healthy (or at least used to be) game rental scene. If someone can only give me 5$ for my game, why should I snub that money? There's probably a million such people across South America alone. I don't see why I would spend time and energy trying to get money out of people who don't value my product instead of finding ways to let everyone who likes my product to support me.

Re: Courts: Violating a Website’s Terms of Service Is Not a Crime

#125
post #2

This is positive news. It seems like the more liberal approach taken when protocols were written is being challenged more by young users who grew up under more stable rules that accepted terms of service as very strong. When I was growing up you went by what the protocol allowed. If an http response came back you have access, if it prompted for credentials, then you didn’t have access. The mere idea that a web server…

Maybe web servers should come with a TOS that outlines that you can't control access to content via freeform text, but must do so via the technical access control means supported by the server itself.

Re: Courts: Violating a Website’s Terms of Service Is Not a Crime

#126
post #3

This is fantastic news, and a great step toward a more "sane" set of internet laws. I just hope that this trend can continue and can sufficiently bury the idea that accessing public (as in without any kind of authentication method) information on the internet should not ever be a violation of any laws when done without malicious intent (a DoS attack should still obviously be illegal).

This isn't a step toward anything. This is a ruling of laws as they exist today - and an obvious one at that.

Re: Courts: Violating a Website’s Terms of Service Is Not a Crime

#127

Does this mean it is also reversed? If a person chooses to not acknowledge the website's terms, does this mean a website doesn't have to abide by its own terms and can make up its own rules as it goes along?

The problem is that non-compliance with a contract wasn't being dealt with by contract lawyers, but was being converted into a criminal offence and dealt with by police.

Re: Courts: Violating a Website’s Terms of Service Is Not a Crime

#128

This might be a somewhat unpopular opinion but I think that there should be some way (definitely not through criminal prosecution) for a website or similar to say "You can use my service for free, but only under the following restrictions". Not sure what the "punishment" should be for breaking these rules.

That is how it works but punishment under civil law is based on damages so there is no punishment if there are no damages even if found guilty of breaching the TOS.

Re: Courts: Violating a Website’s Terms of Service Is Not a Crime

#129
post #3

This is fantastic news, and a great step toward a more "sane" set of internet laws. I just hope that this trend can continue and can sufficiently bury the idea that accessing public (as in without any kind of authentication method) information on the internet should not ever be a violation of any laws when done without malicious intent (a DoS attack should still obviously be illegal).

This isn't a step toward anything. This is a ruling of laws as they exist today - and an obvious one at that.

You say that, but the first time this exact case went to court it was ruled in oracle's favor...

The CFAA and DMCA are written so that they can be applied to an extremely wide set of situations, and getting some concrete examples of things that aren't violations can help push back and contain what are.

Re: Courts: Violating a Website’s Terms of Service Is Not a Crime

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does this mean that scraping is acceptable now, even if a site's TOS explicitly forbid it? That...depends. It was a scraping case, but while the appeals court allowed the automated access that the lower court found violated various anti-hacking laws, it also let stand the copyright violation judgement for the actual use of the scraped content. So, if content is protected by copyright, you don't have a license which…

If you’re scraping from multiple sources and aggregating the data, you might be able to make a fair use case.

But if it's personal data, e.g. from LinkedIn and Facebook, then aggregating might be legally/morally unacceptable.
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