Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

nature.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 146 posts

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#81

Post by oldandtired »

zer00eyz wrote: post #67
quantumofmalice wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By HN standards I would be considered opposed to homosexuality and I am opposed to abortion. The idea of aborting a baby due to their likely sexuality is as horrifying to me as sex-selective abortion. I don't view this as a quandry whatsoever.

Thanks for your candor: Since were in the realm of hypothetical, I would like to ask you a question. If we manage to identify homosexuality as a genetic disorder, and we determined that there was a 99.999% chance that your children would be homosexual, what would you do?

Let me have a go at answering as disciple of Jesus Christ and a father and grandfather. Irrespective of any "genetic disorder", I would bring those children up as followers of Jesus Christ, teaching them to be Holy as He is Holy. Part of this holiness is to keep oneself pure, avoiding sexual misconduct of every kind. So irrespective of any same/opposite sex attraction, the way of life is the same. Whether they end up choosing to follow that path is, however, their choice and their responsibility.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#82

Post by tempay »

brucephillips wrote: post #34
_joe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physics gave up being "deterministic" (in the sense you used the term in) about 120 years ago. And mathematics is just a convenient tool with which we describe reality, no one would seriously think today that our math is deeply inscribed in the essence of reality as Galileo thought. Apart from this, and the fact that the paper shows a very weak statistical significance, I agree fully with your last statement.

> the paper shows a very weak statistical significance How so? The p values are quite low.

They're not low enough to account for the look elsewhere effect[1] (known by a different name in this field, but the idea is the same). In this case they look at 500,000 measurements so finding p-values of 10⁻⁵/10⁻⁶ is expected.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Look-elsewhere_effect

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#83

Post by WillReplyfFood »

zer00eyz wrote: post #67
quantumofmalice wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By HN standards I would be considered opposed to homosexuality and I am opposed to abortion. The idea of aborting a baby due to their likely sexuality is as horrifying to me as sex-selective abortion. I don't view this as a quandry whatsoever.

Thanks for your candor: Since were in the realm of hypothetical, I would like to ask you a question. If we manage to identify homosexuality as a genetic disorder, and we determined that there was a 99.999% chance that your children would be homosexual, what would you do?

We already know its a vital disorder for society. Near all larger contract-institutions of the past where run by "conscripted" closet cases.

So without that- no contracts, no law, no real society - this is why people instinctivly yell for better morals when corruption is detected. Pressure on the outliers creates more contract-caste-conscripts. Problem solved.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#84

Post by tremendulo »

epistasis wrote: post #29

Before anybody jumps to conclusions, these are not definitive findings. They are extremely important findings for those performing active research on the topic, but are not of general interest to those who are not performing research. The next steps will be to see if this holds in other cohorts, and in other populations, etc.

Indeed. At the present time many or most scientific studies are not reproducible.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#85

Post by woodpanel »

peatmoss wrote: post #5

Wow, the bioethical implications of potentially identifying the mechanism of sexual orientation are staggering. I wonder if / how long it will be before parents have the technical means—if not the legal right—to alter their child to be gay or straight through gene therapy. Or even simply selectively bring to term one orientation or the other.

Hallelujah, with these findings and the advancement of CRISPR, religious re-education camps can step up their game!

irony_off

While I doubt we'd see these means anytime soon, it could go either way I think: Forced abortions because of sex orientation (and who says that it'll have to be the straight people that abort homosexuals, not the other way around?) or taking a pill and become gay for some months, as you wish.

I'd assume that the usage of such products would move towards more (percieved) comfortness in life (like not being gay in teenage years, bc. some studies found you're more likely to feel bad ... but being gay in college/post-college years because higher income).

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#86

Post by dwaltrip »

8bitsrule wrote: post #52
ISL wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know a lot of things. We simply focus all of our effort on the things we do not yet understand.

Not according to Thomas Kuhn, we don't.

That's a misreading of Kuhn. He believed in scientific progress -- he says so explicitly.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#87

Post by Animats »

peatmoss wrote: post #5

Wow, the bioethical implications of potentially identifying the mechanism of sexual orientation are staggering. I wonder if / how long it will be before parents have the technical means—if not the legal right—to alter their child to be gay or straight through gene therapy. Or even simply selectively bring to term one orientation or the other.

Birth order is another known input for male homosexuality.[1][2] For every older biological brother, the chances of being born gay go up substantially. But the mechanism isn't known yet. A number of other objective measurements also change with birth order. Parent genetics alone aren't enough.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1626369/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28608293

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#88

Post by ZirconiumX »

oldandtired wrote: post #81
zer00eyz wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your candor: Since were in the realm of hypothetical, I would like to ask you a question. If we manage to identify homosexuality as a genetic disorder, and we determined that there was a 99.999% chance that your children would be homosexual, what would you do?

Let me have a go at answering as disciple of Jesus Christ and a father and grandfather. Irrespective of any "genetic disorder", I would bring those children up as followers of Jesus Christ, teaching them to be Holy as He is Holy. Part of this holiness is to keep oneself pure, avoiding sexual misconduct of every kind. So irrespective of any same/opposite sex attraction, the way of life is the same. Whether they end up…

>the way of life is the same

Would you mind elaborating more on this? It's hard to tell if you mean "avoiding sexual misconduct" as "don't rape, don't have sex outside of marriage" etc, or as "gay men must live as if they were straight". From a Buddhist perspective, the first choice seems reasonable, if a little restricting, since it's a rephrasing of the Third Moral Precept, but the second seems far too imposing on somebody else.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#89

Post by debatem1 »

azinman2 wrote: post #77
debatem1 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, why not select life? Everybody sins-- why not accept that maybe this sin is more likely and love the children that might be born to you?

Why do you have to go to sin? What’s sinful about being born any which way?

If you consider homosexuality a sin (worth saying: I don't) and determinism is at play, the risk is that you go full Zvingli. That would be very unusual today, so it seems worth asking about.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#90

Post by natecavanaugh »

zer00eyz wrote: post #26
peatmoss wrote: post #5

Wow, the bioethical implications of potentially identifying the mechanism of sexual orientation are staggering. I wonder if / how long it will be before parents have the technical means—if not the legal right—to alter their child to be gay or straight through gene therapy. Or even simply selectively bring to term one orientation or the other.

In reading your comment I was struck by the dilemma that this reality would bring. Those most opposed to homosexuality are those most opposed to terminating pregnancy (mostly). It would create quite a quandary for folks who are inclined to hold these two beliefs.

Your other comments make me think you're someone who appreciates an honest discussion, so thanks for that. I do have an honest question of the reverse. Those most in favor of homosexuality are also those okay with abortion.

But if parents started aborting because they were homosexual, would there be any sort of moral/ethical issue?

Other comments have rightly commented it could be inverse (selecting for homosexuality), but I think all pro-lifers would prefer anyone being born, and allowing them to be responsible for their own soul, so that answer is easier for me to imagine.

Post reply on HN