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A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in Market Value Vanishes

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Re: A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in Market Value Vanishes

#151

I'm beginning to see how delusional it is to think you can make money by producing something useful or of value in people's lives. That's for lusers. Instead mess with the neural pathways of a large population such that they just give you their money.

When I first heard the term Initial Coin Offering last year, I laughed and thought "who would be so gullible as to just give someone their money?". Well...

Re: A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in Market Value Vanishes

#152
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just guessing that it's because it's not a stock or a bond. I don't ever hear what the market cap is for the yen, or any other currency.

That's because they can always print more. There's no cap.

[deleted]

Re: A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in Market Value Vanishes

#153

I'm beginning to see how delusional it is to think you can make money by producing something useful or of value in people's lives. That's for lusers. Instead mess with the neural pathways of a large population such that they just give you their money.

When I first heard the term Initial Coin Offering last year, I laughed and thought "who would be so gullible as to just give someone their money?". Well...

It's just a way to finance a start-up. Sure most ICO's are scams, but surely there are a few gems. The way I see it, it's a way for a common man to become an angel investor. And just like with angel investing, most start-ups fail. But you could get lucky. Of course one should always do some research before investing. Figure out the history of the team members, check the source code commits if available, believe the use-case adds some real value, etc…

If I would join an ICO I would probably not spend more than a few hundreds of dollars on it. Something I wouldn't worry about losing.

Re: A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in Market Value Vanishes

#154
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ohh thanks I should look into that. Aren’t the transaction fees huge though?

I think they are a bit over 1% right now. Not the cheapest way to get bitcoin, but not horrible.

If you use GDAX (the underlying exchange technology behind Coinbase and also owned by Coinbase) as a maker (meaning you use a limit order), you pay 0% fees. If you use GDAX as a taker (market order), you pay 0.25% fees.

Re: A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in Market Value Vanishes

#155
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are a bit over 1% right now. Not the cheapest way to get bitcoin, but not horrible.

If you use GDAX (the underlying exchange technology behind Coinbase and also owned by Coinbase) as a maker (meaning you use a limit order), you pay 0% fees. If you use GDAX as a taker (market order), you pay 0.25% fees.

That's not what the maker/taker distinction means—a taker is an order to the extent it is filled because it matches a pre-existing order when it hits the sysyem; a limit order can be a taker if there's a matching order on the book when it hits the system. GDAX supports marking a limit order as “Post Only”, which cancels it if any part would fill as a taker order, but that's optional.

Re: A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in Market Value Vanishes

#156
post #57
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. This is also why Market Cap is a problematic metric in the cryptocurrency space.

What's wrong with it? Seems like a perfectly normal metric for coins just like for stocks and bonds.

With stocks, the market cap is the total valuation of the company. Companies can have valuations because they can be bought and sold - either when they're private, like when Google buys a startup, or when they're publicly traded, like when Microsoft bought LinkedIn.

The valuation of a company is determined based on its financial performance and, ultimately, by its ability to generate cash for shareholders. (Keep in mind that, unlike cryptocurrencies, companies generate profit for their owners just from their daily operations).

That overall valuation drives share price. Equity investors consider how valuable they think a company will be in the future and back into a price they're willing to pay per share from there.

Market cap is a meaningless metric for crypto since nobody would ever want to buy all the Bitcoin in the world and hold it for ten years. What would be the point? It won't generate cash flow during those ten years, and it almost certainly won't be worth more in ten years - with one person hoarding all the Bitcoin in the world nobody could use it for any transactions and people would lose interest.

Case in point, nobody talks about the market cap for USD or other currencies. It just doesn't make sense for assets that are only valuable as a medium of exchange.

Re: A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in Market Value Vanishes

#157

I'm beginning to see how delusional it is to think you can make money by producing something useful or of value in people's lives. That's for lusers. Instead mess with the neural pathways of a large population such that they just give you their money.

I'm sure many of us feel this way but would you please not post unsubstantive rants to Hacker News? It leads reliably to lower-quality discussion, partly because it's so generic, and partly because rage gets the lower-quality juices flowing.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in Market Value Vanishes

#158

I'm beginning to see how delusional it is to think you can make money by producing something useful or of value in people's lives. That's for lusers. Instead mess with the neural pathways of a large population such that they just give you their money.

I don't get it, either, especially with the Kodak news today. Like, someone please explain if I'm misunderstanding, but can't pretty much anyone create a cryptocurrency? Do I instantly become valuable if I create one tonight?

You can make anything seem valuable by bankrolling a sock puppet buyer to buy from you at a fantastical price while others are watching.

Cryptotokens work particularly well because of pseudonymity, a very receptive audience and exchanges that will happily provide a stage for just about anything as long as they get a little cut.

Competition between similarly inflated tokens make success and failure a matter of storytelling quality. The legend doesn't even have to personally convince anybody, but it should lend the sock puppet buys some plausibility.

Re: A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in Market Value Vanishes

#159
post #16

Market cap isn't as interesting as people think: https://blog.sia.tech/want-to-deflate-the-token-bubble-fix-t...

Yep, given that practically all altcoins are priced in bitcoin, market cap artificially rises extremely, or lowers extremely due to the inertness of the open trades.

Re: A Cryptocurrency Website Changes Its Data, and $100B in Market Value Vanishes

#160
post #131

I am deeply surprised by how few people are mentioning bots. This is no doubt directly related to trading bots that are polling coinmarketcap and then buying/selling through some API like the one bittrex offers. The number of bots that are actively trading is unknown, but if you do some digging the amount of resources and interest there is around trading bots leads me to believe that the pool of bots must be massive.…

Have a look at http://http://www.dancingbots.com which visualizes Orderbook positions. Most of the action (95%?) close to current price looks like positions from bots.

Compare the orderbooks of exchanges which have no fees for maker orders (like gdax, bitfinex) and are preferred by bots to those exchanges who do ask for a fee.

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