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Building for the Blockchain

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Building for the Blockchain

#201

Post by pmontra »

hyperion2010 wrote: post #155
goodroot wrote: post #3

> For one, Ethereum is unable to access real time data from outside the blockchain. Developers need to rely on trusted third party data providers, called oracles, to provide smart contracts with outside information like weather, random numbers, or currency values. I feel like this is more of a feature than a bug. If you're weaving applications into the blockchain, would it really be wise to have that chain communicat…

Verifiable oracles are extremely hard to create. In fact I think that the creation of verifiable oracles is the single biggest challenge facing science and engineering. Full disclosure, I am quite biased about this since part of my PhD work is to create a language to specify measurement processes. How do you know whether the numbers you are getting reflect something about the real world? How do you know that your dat…

Maybe I'm just dumb, but is this a bigger problem than it is offchain? Data is forged all the time, we have fake news, people lie, people are jailed with false accusations.

If the owner of the fridge in your example eventually discovers that the sensor has been tampered with, s/he can get the money back using the judicial system offchain, maybe reflected in some inchain contract.

Answering to my own initial question, the speed of the system could make a difference. An automated way to scam people with an oracle could make it easier to get the money and disappear.

Are there any other major differences?

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#202

Post by vec »

tptacek wrote: post #150
indigochill wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. This is probably the most coherent pitch I've seen for tokens (and also helps me understand a little better why certain people are so attracted to them). I was of the opinion they were a pure ponzi scheme, but this gives me a somewhat better balanced understanding of what actual expectations underpin the speculation.

The most coherent pitch for tokens?

...is a sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek dismissal of the fundamental idea. That's about par for the course for intellectual debate around cryptocurrencies of late.

To be clear, I don't have a dog in this fight. Tokens may be the Next Big Thing, I don't know. But it'd be really nice to have a full conversation on the topic that didn't either go off the rails or devolve into a political diatribe as soon as I ask a question about intrinsic value or zero sum games.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#203

Post by ThomPete »

ICO's are the equivalent of getting funding.

I think that the first successful blockchain based company won't be doing an ICO but just launch it's token/coin because it has utility in itself.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#204

Post by brandonmenc »

ThomPete wrote: post #189

The negativity in this thread reminds me of the internet in the early nineties. If someone had said that one day there will be a company that does billions by allowing people to fundamentally share their cat pictures and send each other happy birthday messages people would have laughed their asses off. The blockchain can be seen as a giant immutable feed. Make of that what you will.

It reminds me more of the P2P mania of the early 2000s - P2P was going to decentralize and revolutionize absolutely everything, and well, it didn't. It stayed in its narrow lane, providing benefits where it made sense.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#205

Post by ruiquelhas »

joosters wrote: post #152
felipeccastro wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, steemit.com: a social network where you get paid (in tokens) for producing/curating content. As the network grows, the token gets more valuable, so there's a strong incentive for early users to join it. I'm not sure yet steemit will end up being a winner in this field, but I find this a very smart approach for challenging the network effect of big competitors.

There's nothing there that is impossible without a blockchain. The steemit website might as well issue its tokens using a simple database. Running it on a blockchain adds nothing except a 'shiny new technology' feel.

And why would I need the tokens in the first place? Hell, why would I need to pay at all, given that there are free alternatives like Medium?

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#206

Post by flignats »

snitko wrote: post #63

It's all the same thing every year on HN. People trying to find all sorts of excuses for Bitcoin existence - blockchains, smart contracts, ICOs - as long as they don't have to accept that Bitcoin's main purpose is and always was to have an alternative to the financial system, crippling regulations, government control and taxes. In other words, everything people hate about libertarians, they try to ignore in Bitcoin.…

"Not because blockchain is some sort of an innovation."

Actually, it is some sort of huge innovation.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#207

Post by coffeemug »

davesque wrote: post #162

A blockchain ensures that some sequence of agreements was made in a way that everyone can trust. If everyone keeps their secret keys secure and solely in their possession, then no activity can be forged on the network by any significant likelihood. Anywhere this concept has value, a blockchain has value. That's all there is to it. The rest is fairy dust and noise. I don't really follow a lot of the discussion in this…

> A blockchain ensures that some sequence of agreements was made in a way that everyone can trust. If everyone keeps their secret keys secure and solely in their possession, then no activity can be forged on the network by any significant likelihood. Anywhere this concept has value, a blockchain has value. That's all there is to it.

Note an important caveat -- a centralized third party can also provide such a service. So you have to further subdivide the space into use cases where the blockchain has to compete against such services, and use cases where a public ledger is desirable in and of itself.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#208

Post by Alex3917 »

davesque wrote: post #162

A blockchain ensures that some sequence of agreements was made in a way that everyone can trust. If everyone keeps their secret keys secure and solely in their possession, then no activity can be forged on the network by any significant likelihood. Anywhere this concept has value, a blockchain has value. That's all there is to it. The rest is fairy dust and noise. I don't really follow a lot of the discussion in this…

> Anywhere this concept has value, a blockchain has value.

Sure, and that's several trillion dollars per year worth of the global GDP.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#209

Post by felipeccastro »

joosters wrote: post #152
felipeccastro wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, steemit.com: a social network where you get paid (in tokens) for producing/curating content. As the network grows, the token gets more valuable, so there's a strong incentive for early users to join it. I'm not sure yet steemit will end up being a winner in this field, but I find this a very smart approach for challenging the network effect of big competitors.

There's nothing there that is impossible without a blockchain. The steemit website might as well issue its tokens using a simple database. Running it on a blockchain adds nothing except a 'shiny new technology' feel.

The tokens here are essentially altcoins, like ether or bitcoin. How would that be done with a simple, private database?

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#210

Post by felipeccastro »

ruiquelhas wrote: post #205
joosters wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing there that is impossible without a blockchain. The steemit website might as well issue its tokens using a simple database. Running it on a blockchain adds nothing except a 'shiny new technology' feel.

And why would I need the tokens in the first place? Hell, why would I need to pay at all, given that there are free alternatives like Medium?

You don't pay, you gain money. Unless, of course, you're a company that wants to buy advertising space.

As a user (writer/curator), you earn tokens for doing what you already do for free in reddit or facebook. The tokens you earn are like altcoins, you can trade them for whatever you like.

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