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Intel CEO: Patches will come to 90% of chips in the next week

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Re: Intel CEO: Patches will come to 90% of chips in the next week

#61
post #28

What I'm worried about is that it will be hard to avoid these security patches when you don't need them. Say you have a non-virtualized, non-shared server that only runs your own trusted code. I don't want to be forced to pay the performance penalty but it might be unavoidable without resorting to maintaining your own linux fork.

Do you trust all of the userland? Is your machine internet connected? Do you have any open ports? Do you run everything as root? If your answers are yes, no, no, and yes than it likely will make no difference. Otherwise (and the last one is just for fun to attempt to show you this is probably not a wise decision) you probably would do better to take this serious.

For an average user that doesn't bother with security to the point that nothing on the server runs in sandboxes - Spectre and Meltdown are not of much concern. Running under a different user is not the same as running in a sandbox, certainly not on linux/bsd/windows. A user still has an enormous attack surface to play with. And due to the nature of multiuser software typically running on servers where all users live within the same trust boundaries any exploitable vulnerability is going to do as much damage, as if it was running under root, think Cloudbleed for example. You can't make things noticeably worse by turning off KPTI.

Re: Intel CEO: Patches will come to 90% of chips in the next week

#62

This is how this terrible CEO tells us about microcode fixes, at a CES speech? Or is he even talking about a microcode update, or about the patches everybody else has been losing their lives working on? What a crap response to such a huge and existential issue. Make a web page on the Intel site with concise, real information on what's going on and what to do. We're a week into disclosure and there's still no patch fo…

Let me break down what the article really says (it's pretty short):

  > He also said that Intel expects to issue updates
  > to its processors soon. More than 90 percent will be
  > getting them within the week, and the rest by the end
  > of January.
Intel expects 90 percent will "get an update."

90 percent of what?

It should be self-evident that Intel means 90 percent in whichever way gives them the largest percentage. I expect this means Intel discounts "older CPUs" that are "probably not in use." In other words, 90 percent of CPUs sold in the last N years for whatever N makes the percentage largest (5 years [1])

"The rest by the end of January" can be taken with a huge grain of salt. Intel is documenting and exposing an MSR to flush the [ed] branch predictor, but only for recent CPUs, and admits they aren't able to do so in a timely manner, or they would have said "100 percent."

[1] https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/intel-issues-update...

"Intel has already issued updates for the majority of processor products introduced within the past five years. By the end of next week, Intel expects to have issued updates for more than 90 percent of processor products introduced within the past five years"

Edit: I incorrectly stated the MSR was for the TLB, it is not. It is for the branch predictor.

Re: Intel CEO: Patches will come to 90% of chips in the next week

#63
post #51

So when will chips with a fix in silicon be available?

Just buy an AMD chip right now.

Specifically buy an AMD Ryzen:

https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/speculative-execution

Ryzen is only affected by "Spectre variant one, Bounds Check Bypass"

It's fixed by OS updates with negligible performance impact expected.

Re: Intel CEO: Patches will come to 90% of chips in the next week

#64
post #45

So when will chips with a fix in silicon be available?

I'm giving it one to two generations of CPUs before I do a new build.

But since the OS fixes to protect against meltdown come with a potential performance penalty, AMD is a better choice now than it was a week ago.

Re: Intel CEO: Patches will come to 90% of chips in the next week

#65
post #41

This is only Spectre, not Meltdown. Meltdown requires KPTI, which depends on your OS. For OSs that did not enjoy months of advanced disclosure (which is: any OS that isn't Windows, MacOS or mainline Linux), that work is ongoing and will depend on the OS. (Speaking for SmartOS/illumos, that work is reasonably far along and making promising progress -- but we don't yet have a functional prototype.) As for Spectre, thes…

For reference, I received this email before today: By now, we're sure most everyone have heard of the Meltdown and Spectre attacks. If not, head over to https://meltdownattack.com/ and get an overview. Additional technical details are available from Google Project Zero. https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2018/01/reading-privi... The FreeBSD Security Team was notified of the issue in late December and received a b…

> FreeBSD Security Team was notified of the issue in late December

Anyone else thinks this was kind of a slap in the face to the smaller communities and companies or is it just me?

They were notified in late December, right before the holidays, so that's basically only 2-3 weeks of work. Obviously nobody _had_ to notify anyone, could have just released it right away, so it was a professional courtesy, but why not extend it to a few more projects?

Before anyone says "but OpenBSD broke an embargo before", this is a different project and besides having BSD in the name don't see why they were excluded.

Re: Intel CEO: Patches will come to 90% of chips in the next week

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, well, let's not break out the champagne yet. According to your link: > The BIOS (or UEFI) updates the CPU microcode during boot, however most of the time either the motherboard vendor won't issue frequent BIOS/UEFI updates, or the user won't install such updates. For these reasons, the system processor is likely to be running with outdated microcode on a vast number of systems. We still need the various manufac…

Microcode is updated by OSes as well as BIOSes. I explained this in a previous thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16075376

Microsoft is still saying that users need firmware/BIOS updates to be protected. Their messaging is at best confusing on this if they're going to apply microcode updates themselves.

In the early days after disclosure at least, a BIOS/firmware update for my machine (from Dell) was required to provide the necessary hardware support for their branch target injection mitigation. As far as I can tell, that's still the case today.

Perhaps they're waiting for the updates to be available for more processors before pushing an update?

Re: Intel CEO: Patches will come to 90% of chips in the next week

#68
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you trust all of the userland? Is your machine internet connected? Do you have any open ports? Do you run everything as root? If your answers are yes, no, no, and yes than it likely will make no difference. Otherwise (and the last one is just for fun to attempt to show you this is probably not a wise decision) you probably would do better to take this serious.

For private servers that are totally not connected to the internet in any way and don't need to be, run self-developed code on data which is mainly CPU-bound but also need a lot of disk IO for reading files and memory mapping data, I'm pretty certain it'll make a noticeable difference, for no security benefit.

but isn't it pretty easy to avoid the security update on those machines?

Re: Intel CEO: Patches will come to 90% of chips in the next week

#69
post #28

What I'm worried about is that it will be hard to avoid these security patches when you don't need them. Say you have a non-virtualized, non-shared server that only runs your own trusted code. I don't want to be forced to pay the performance penalty but it might be unavoidable without resorting to maintaining your own linux fork.

Do you trust all of the userland? Is your machine internet connected? Do you have any open ports? Do you run everything as root? If your answers are yes, no, no, and yes than it likely will make no difference. Otherwise (and the last one is just for fun to attempt to show you this is probably not a wise decision) you probably would do better to take this serious.

How do open ports factor in? And what if you’re internet connected but have JS disabled?

Re: Intel CEO: Patches will come to 90% of chips in the next week

#70
post #62

This is how this terrible CEO tells us about microcode fixes, at a CES speech? Or is he even talking about a microcode update, or about the patches everybody else has been losing their lives working on? What a crap response to such a huge and existential issue. Make a web page on the Intel site with concise, real information on what's going on and what to do. We're a week into disclosure and there's still no patch fo…

Let me break down what the article really says (it's pretty short): > He also said that Intel expects to issue updates > to its processors soon. More than 90 percent will be > getting them within the week, and the rest by the end > of January. Intel expects 90 percent will "get an update." 90 percent of what? It should be self-evident that Intel means 90 percent in whichever way gives them the largest percentage. I e…

> exposing an MSR to flush the TLB, but only for recent CPUs

You write to CR3 register to flush TLB (or use INVPCID to invalidate just a subset of TLB). So not sure what that means, why would you need an MSR for that?

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