Building for the Blockchain • Hacker News Board

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#61

Post by scardine » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 6:55 PM UTC

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #11

People are trying to solve a lot of interesting problems with blockchain, but I fear it's become the ultimate shoehorn solution for the modern era. See also: https://tonyarcieri.com/on-the-dangers-of-a-blockchain-monoc... I've had meetings with prospective clients that opened with, "We have $problem, can we use blockchain to solve it?" where anything that doesn't qualify as a blockchain is cast to the wayside because…

A couple weeks ago a startup pitched blockchain solutions for government problems (I work at a government agency in Brazil). The presentation sounded like Scientology, lots of circular arguments and bold claims without much substance.

I asked a few questions and he dodged them like a professional politician:

* what do you do if you need to reverse a transaction (lets say, court order)

* what if someone loses his wallet/password

* some people claims blockchain is over-hyped

He said that I being skeptical proves my ignorance and I should study more about the subject instead of challenge him.

Remembered the short tale "The Emperor's new clothes", I'm unable to see the king's clothes because they are made of a magic fabric invisible to the stupid. I guess the magic fabric is made of blockchain.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#62

Post by geraldbauer » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

FYI: To learn about blockchains - why not build your own blockchains from scratch (zero)? At the Awesome Blockchains [1] page I collect starter blockchains (in JavaScript, Python, Ruby, etc.) and articles plus fun blockchains (such as CryptoKitties and CryptoCopycats) [2]. [1]: https://github.com/openblockchains/awesome-blockchains [2]: https://github.com/openblockchains/awesome-cryptokitties

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#63

Post by snitko » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

It's all the same thing every year on HN. People trying to find all sorts of excuses for Bitcoin existence - blockchains, smart contracts, ICOs - as long as they don't have to accept that Bitcoin's main purpose is and always was to have an alternative to the financial system, crippling regulations, government control and taxes. In other words, everything people hate about libertarians, they try to ignore in Bitcoin. Because they can't just ignore Bitcoin - it's not going away for some reason.

And it's not going away because there's a demand for Bitcoin. Why? Not because blockchain is some sort of an innovation. It's because people want a currency not controlled by any state institution. It's because people want freedom. Deny that all you want, it's not going away.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#64

Post by Jasper_ » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #57

Jasper_ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand is how Ethereum can describe their dapps as "trustless" when all the trust is still centralized in an oracle. This can even happen accidentally, such as with the Mayweather/McGregor smart contract breakage. [0] But now imagine if BoxRec had intentionally reported false results from their website in order to make a lot of money on the bet. People would lose their money, and there would be no re…

You can solve this by using multiple oracles and a stake-based consensus algorithm to de-incentivize malicious reporting.

I am unable to find anything about using multiple oracles in Ethereum. Do you have any information about this?

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#65

Post by elmar » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #11

People are trying to solve a lot of interesting problems with blockchain, but I fear it's become the ultimate shoehorn solution for the modern era. See also: https://tonyarcieri.com/on-the-dangers-of-a-blockchain-monoc... I've had meetings with prospective clients that opened with, "We have $problem, can we use blockchain to solve it?" where anything that doesn't qualify as a blockchain is cast to the wayside because…

Does your problem gets easier/solved with a permissionless ownerless database, if "yes" then you need a public blockchain, if "no" you need something else.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#66

Post by bitoneill » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

rrecuero wrote: post #54

bitoneill wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ten years in, nobody has come up with a use for blockchain https://hackernoon.com/ten-years-in-nobody-has-come-up-with-...

Fundraising: Ethereum ICOs Store of Value: Bitcoin Loans: SALT .... This is just the beginning

I found a non-coin blockchain example:

Big Pharma Seeks DLT Solution for Drug Costs

https://www.coindesk.com/blockchain-day-big-pharma-seeks-dlt...

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#67

Post by xchaotic » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 7:21 PM UTC

snitko wrote: post #63

It's all the same thing every year on HN. People trying to find all sorts of excuses for Bitcoin existence - blockchains, smart contracts, ICOs - as long as they don't have to accept that Bitcoin's main purpose is and always was to have an alternative to the financial system, crippling regulations, government control and taxes. In other words, everything people hate about libertarians, they try to ignore in Bitcoin.…

it's a very noble approach, but the facts are not in your favour. The 'people' that keep bitcoin valuation high are: early adopters (including ones who lost access to their wallets), HODLers and speculators and perhaps a few casual drug buyers. As a mainstream currency, BTC is pretty useless at world scale.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#68

Post by kang » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 7:22 PM UTC

Naval does a much better job of explaining what the tech is about : https://startupboy.com/2014/04/01/the-fifth-protocol/

However, OP nor Naval, really understand the protocol, or wouldn't be supporting non-blockchain things like ethereum (there is nothing that you can do with ethereum but not with git).

>One of these developers, Vitalik Buterin, was frustrated by Bitcoin’s immobilism

I am amazed at how HN is selling a promo story invented for media by ethereum as a company. Digging IRC logs would reveal how Vitalik convoluted each aspect of the tech(and was often wrong)to the point that the devs stopped caring and let him be. Even technically, I have answered this on HN and other places numerous times - tell me one thing you can build with ethereum but not with bitcoin? (On the opposite, ethereum can't do money - mutable chain).

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#69

Post by iraklism » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 7:24 PM UTC

snitko wrote: post #63

It's all the same thing every year on HN. People trying to find all sorts of excuses for Bitcoin existence - blockchains, smart contracts, ICOs - as long as they don't have to accept that Bitcoin's main purpose is and always was to have an alternative to the financial system, crippling regulations, government control and taxes. In other words, everything people hate about libertarians, they try to ignore in Bitcoin.…

There is definitely a portion of people that this applies to. However, I’d wager that the majority of the Cryptocurrency market capitalisation is from people that really want to become millionaires really fast.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#70

Post by Kiro » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 7:24 PM UTC

snitko wrote: post #63

It's all the same thing every year on HN. People trying to find all sorts of excuses for Bitcoin existence - blockchains, smart contracts, ICOs - as long as they don't have to accept that Bitcoin's main purpose is and always was to have an alternative to the financial system, crippling regulations, government control and taxes. In other words, everything people hate about libertarians, they try to ignore in Bitcoin.…

You're just speculating and I personally think you're wrong.