The day I accidentally killed a little boy • Hacker News Board

Re: The day I accidentally killed a little boy

#361

Post by peatmoss » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

btrettel wrote: post #316

peatmoss wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why this is being downvoted. Whether you agree with the values expressed or not, it is a fact that people who kill people with their car rarely face any sort of legal repercussion. And yeah, I don’t think the fragility of the agent of death is a reason not to conduct even a cursory investigation into whether there might have been factors related to the crash. Was there anything in the car that might indictat…

What happened to all parties is horrible. With that being said, I'm inclined not to believe people when they say they're following the speed limit without prior information about the driver. Speeding has become endemic to much of the western world. The driver in the BBC article claims to be following the speed limit, but can't remember it precisely ("45 or 50mph"). That's certainly not a point in her favor. And the v…

People often don't think that 5 mph is significant, but it absolutely is.

https://one.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/pub/HS809012.ht...

Table 2 in that link shows fatalities approximately doubling for each 5 mph increment of speed added.

That doesn't even take into account the increased likelihood of hitting someone (increased speed means decreased ability to react and stop).

And yes, most (U.S.) roads are designed in such a way that practically begs motorists to speed. And thus speeding is the norm. Man if I had a dollar for every HN thread where someone bragged about getting out of a speeding ticket...

Re: The day I accidentally killed a little boy

#362

Post by christophilus » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

Reedx wrote: post #269

christophilus wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad to hear that this story was fake! I never looked it up, just heard her retelling of it. Regardless, the story wasn't the point of my comment. The reaction I have as a dad vs pre-parenthood is the point. Where I live is the sex-trafficking capital of my state, which probably heightens my reactions, too. The problem is real and pervasive, fake news not withstanding.

Well, it's real like getting struck by lightning is real. The odds are extremely low. Everyone could let their kids walk to school and chances are nothing bad will happen. Though it may lead to those kids being a bit healthier, more independent and more confident. And less likely to die in a car crash - which is far, far more probable than kidnapping.

I agree with your sentiment. It's more common than lightning strikes, though still super remote. But I'm not planning on sending my kids out to play in thunderstorms, and I'm not planning on leaving them unattended in public places until they're of a certain age.

Walking to school is an interesting scenario. I hate the car, so I'd probably walk with them or ride bikes together.

Side story: My dad had a friend who was almost kidnapped while on the way to school. The only reason it didn't succeed is that my dad and another friend grabbed their friend by the ankles while the guy in the car was tugging on their friend's arms. The kids all screamed bloody murder, and the men in the car gave up and drove off.

In most areas of life I like to think that I let statistics drive my thinking (e.g. I don't try to beat the stock market no matter how bad things look, unless I'm gambling for the fun of it). But in the case of kids, man... it's just much harder to overcome emotional biases.

Re: The day I accidentally killed a little boy

#363

Post by jessaustin » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

cobbzilla wrote: post #239

peatmoss wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if we’re doing > 10 9/11s per year, and we’ve had 16 years of comparison since 9/11, my back-of-a-napkin reasoning suggests we’re almost half way to a year’s worth of 9/11s.

Another reason the 9/11 comparison is not so great: from a mass-social-psychology POV it was (a) very easy to blame an out-group (terrorists), and (b) the singular nature of the event represented a tremendous opportunity for a huge power-grab by the government. With traffic fatalities (a) we largely have only ourselves to blame, and (b) there is no big power-grab to be found.

Maybe it wasn't a "big" power-grab, but the lives of the rural poor have certainly been made worse by all of our egregious drunk driving laws, and the cops and courts dedicated to their zealous persecution.

Re: The day I accidentally killed a little boy

#364

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

sambe wrote: post #326

jacquesm wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologizing for the source, but sometimes it does happen: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2123200/man-arrested-after-thr...

Or does it? http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/15255796._I_was_to...

Good find.

Have another one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2098608/Kidnap-attem...

There are plenty of these examples over the years. It is not that it does not happen, it does happen, but it is pretty rare. My point was that you can not simply dismiss all these cases out of hand as fantasy.

Re: The day I accidentally killed a little boy

#365

Post by logfromblammo » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

magic_beans wrote: post #260

Mithaldu wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty that could've been done to prevent this. Most basic and simple would be to institute a traffic law culture in which the driver does get blame by default for hurting a pedestrian so they have pedestrians on their mind every single minute they control their car.

It was not the driver's fault in this case. The child ran right into a residential road with a high speed limit. The road should not have had such a high speed limit, should have had speed bumps, and possible the little boy's parents should have had a fence. Punishing the driver in this case doesn't fix the problem at all.

Tragic preventable automobile accidents will continue to not be prevented, because over-engineering for one particular criterion is its own kind of tragedy.

In this particular case, there is one thing that stands out to me above all others: the mailboxes were on the opposite side of the road from the houses. The second thing that distressed me was that the cop, after investigating and deciding there was no reasonable suspicion that the driver was criminally culpable, went on to lecture the driver anyway.

The road should have had a high speed limit, with no speed bumps. And there should have been no reason for pedestrians to ever set foot on it. Those mailboxes were on the wrong side of the road, because the postmaster decided that the driver on that rural route should not have to turn around twice or exit their vehicle to service those addresses. That boy died to save $300 in postal employee wages per year.

The homes should have had a gravel frontage road--behind a guardrail, bollards, cable, or Jersey barrier--with the mailboxes on the same side of the main road as the buildings.

And the cop should not have been lecturing anybody. That's the judge's job. No arrest? That means no judge, and no lecture. "Here's the number of the guy we called out to tow your vehicle, and the department's photocopied resource list of local businesses that may be helpful to you today, in the aftermath of your incident. I can give you a ride back into town, where you will have an opportunity to give a written statement for the accident report. Then you can use one of the payphones in the lobby to call somebody."

Re: The day I accidentally killed a little boy

#366

Post by dwaltrip » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

betenoire wrote: post #258

christophilus wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience yesterday when my wife related a near-kidnapping that happened in a grocery store. It seems that a pair of child-traffickers attempted to take a baby out of a shopping cart. It was a male/female duo. (Side note: NEVER leave your children unattended even for a moment. In this case, the parent was right beside the cart, moving groceries from the cart to the conveyor belt. It was a brazen act…

> NEVER leave your children unattended even for a moment. I don't understand this approach. Alternatively, find a place to live, and a lifestyle to live, that lets your children develop without your anxiety weighing them down. You leave them unattended for hours and hours at a time while you sleep. The only difference your mind isn't racing with potential threats, it's asleep. I don't know. all kids are different, mi…

My understanding, and what I remember from some brief research, is that kidnappings by strangers are incredibly rare. This would mean that the widespread fear we see nowadays is very disproportionate, and likely due to a variety of other social factors and not some actual underlying danger. Can anyone provide a quick corroboration/correction on this?

Re: The day I accidentally killed a little boy

#367

Post by cozzyd » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #323

dm319 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speed limits are not speed targets. In the UK most b-roads are 'national' speed limit (i.e. 60mph or 70mph). It is expected that the driver selects the appropriate speed for the conditions, visibility, road etc etc. Of course, we're humans, which means errors are made, people are impatient, we don't balance risk very well etc etc.

Speed limits are a function of road conditions, both static (e.g design) and dynamic (e.g. weather). Posted speed limits are a function of the 90th percentile speed (usually based on typical conditions). If you set low speed limits because "think of the children" you get other (safety) problems.

Just add speed cameras and eventually people will stop speeding.

Re: The day I accidentally killed a little boy

#368

Post by Pxtl » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 6:24 PM UTC

smitherfield wrote: post #276

bckygldstn wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For context, Massachusetts has the lowest fatality rate of all US states.

Wow. As a Massachusetts driver, I would not have expected that. I've traveled pretty extensively within the US and Europe and I (and many, many others) consider Massachusetts, or at least the Boston metro area, to have the worst drivers. Three possible explanations for the low fatality rate: - Bars, nightclubs and stores that sell alcohol must close by 2 AM, plus our other state and local alcohol sales regulations (p…

I'd assume it's just that Boston traffic is so slow that it's impossible to get up to speed enough to kill anybody - all the fast traffic is on expressways like the Mass Pike, which are far safer because of controlled access.

Slow traffic just plain doesn't kill people.

Sprawl and exurb farming country is where fatalities happen. That's where people are driving fast but without the protection that expressways provide. Massachusetts is one of the most urbanized states, and has less of that fatality-prone terrain.

Re: The day I accidentally killed a little boy

#369

Post by cableshaft » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

macintux wrote: post #350

cableshaft wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also need one for "movies where no dogs are killed". There's a lot more movies that do that than you might expect. I know several people that get really angry when they are subjected to a movie with this in it.

10 years ago I had to have my German Shepherd put down; she was suffering from cancer, and I couldn't take it any longer. A few weeks later I was watching I Am Legend in the theater, and when (spoiler alert) I could see what looked like the inevitable demise of Will Smith's dog, I hoofed it out as quickly as I could. I was completely unprepared to deal with that, and to this day I've never finished the movie.

Yeah, good call.

I'm sorry you had to have your dog put down. It's an awful decision. When my parents decided to do that for the dog I grew up with, I really hated them for awhile. I didn't have a dog for a long time after that, but now I have a one year old Shiba, and I dread the day when I'll have to make that decision. Hopefully that won't be for a long time from now.

Re: The day I accidentally killed a little boy

#370

Post by Mithaldu » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

sulam wrote: post #355

Mithaldu wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said "institute a traffic law culture", not "apply this ruling to this woman". If the entire culture is based on certain assumptions, many aspects of it change to accommodate it. For example all of the things nickspacek mentions here would be brought in in due course based on pressure from the drivers themselves: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16107645

So the next person this happens to goes to jail? You're proposing that drivers will ask for speed limits to be reduced because they don't want to fall afoul of this proposed law? Do you realize how silly that sounds? Legal driving does not mean I have the ability to repeal basic physical laws like inertia. If you're trying to legislate cars off the road altogether, then this is probably one way to do it, but good luc…

> So the next person this happens to goes to jail?

No, that is not how you build a culture. :)