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Net Neutrality to Get U.S. Senate Vote as Democrats Force Issue

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Re: Net Neutrality to Get U.S. Senate Vote as Democrats Force Issue

#81

Post by ajmurmann »

viridian wrote: post #68
oceanstone wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't mention the largest voting block, voters who don't strongly identify with either party.

Unfortunately that voting block doesn't line up with reality, as least from the stats I know for the presidential elections. A given voter that voted for party X's candidate four years ago, if they vote again, will vote for party X's candidate about 92% of the time. This means that in the pool of 'likely voters', the two parties are realistically fighting over 8% of hearts and minds.

There is another caveat: 8% in ~12 states.

Greatest democracy in the world!

Re: Net Neutrality to Get U.S. Senate Vote as Democrats Force Issue

#82

Post by awalton »

meddlepal wrote: post #76
untog wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is not. Republicans are far more dedicated to the task of destroying government than Democrats are. I agree that some Democratic senators have historically been pretty shitty on the topic of net neutrality but this false equivalence nonsense needs to stop. Republicans will sell off national parks, shut down the EPA and FDA and shut down any banking regulation you put in front of them.

I agree that some Republican senators have historically been pretty shitty on the topic of FDA, EPA and banking regulation but this false narrative of all Republicans are evil needs to stop.

> this false narrative of all Republicans are evil needs to stop.

Then perhaps they should stop being evil.

Republicans should fight the evil within their own party and drive it out. They should ask for the resignation of abusers, and voters should fire the ones that don't resign. Republicans shouldn't throw money behind suspected child molesters. Republicans shouldn't rescind laws that the vast majority of Americans want because Verizon and Comcast filled their coffers. Republicans shouldn't attack various races, religions, and immigrants, and should condemn anyone who does. Republicans should come out strongly against Neo-Nazis rallying and using their political party as a facade. Republicans should stop fighting so hard to stop voters from voting - removing registered voters, gerrymandering and voter suppression laws are categorically anti-American practices and need to stop. Republicans should want to work with the Democrats to come to a healthcare agreement everyone can live with, if they truly find the ACA so reprehensible despite amending over a hundred times and then voting for it.

Once the Republicans start acting like a conservative party and not an extremist organization, then maybe we can change the tone of the conversation back to "reaching across the aisle" and being friends despite not agreeing on the tax brackets or which companies get which subsidies.

But sadly that's not the state of political discourse in this country in 2018. The "Good" Republicans need to make their voices heard above the wailing of the lunatics currently running the asylum. The "Evil" Republicans need to be removed from office. And we need strong assurances that our democracy won't ever crumble like this again.

Re: Net Neutrality to Get U.S. Senate Vote as Democrats Force Issue

#83

Post by notadoc »

Why net neutrality has turned into a partisan issue is beyond me, but in this era seemingly everything must be politicized as part of a divide and conquer strategy.

I suspect the best hope for net neutrality is for states to adopt it themselves at the state level.

Re: Net Neutrality to Get U.S. Senate Vote as Democrats Force Issue

#84

Post by temp-dude-87844 »

smsm42 wrote: post #38
temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #22

This vote is an important device that serves to decouple net neutrality as a distinct political issue, rather than a footnote in a particular politician's larger platform which -- to many voters -- isn't as important as some other hot-button stances to merit single-issue voting. By triggering a senate vote, this gives an opportunity for each senator to make their stance on this a matter of official record, theoretica…

Where the idea that FCC latest ruling is opposed by majority of conservatives comes from? Moreover, if you think issue as obscure and technical as NN would be important enough for a senator to break with their own party, you are deluding yourself. The only way to make it so is to wage blatantly false campaign like "without NN you'd be paying 100x for Internet tomorrow and all your favorite sites would be blocked" - w…

My assertion as stated in the parent post is based on the University of Maryland Program for Public Consultation's December 2017 poll, which asked respondents to weigh how convincing they found a pro-repeal and a con-repeal argument, and then asked their final stance. The results show [1] that 75% of Republican voters, over 88% of Democrat voters, and almost 86% of independents oppose changes are consistent with the result the FCC's undoing of the Obama-era NN rules. This survey at the time was widely covered in media, e.g. [2][3].

[1] http://www.publicconsultation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12... [2] http://thehill.com/policy/technology/364528-poll-83-percent-... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/12/12...

Re: Net Neutrality to Get U.S. Senate Vote as Democrats Force Issue

#85

Post by notadoc »

1024core wrote: post #78

What I don't understand is: why did it take so much effort to get to 30 supporters, when Democrats have 48 in the Senate? What are the other 18 Democratic Senators doing? Why are they not fully behind NN?

Follow the money. I suspect you will find the answers to your questions here:

https://www.opensecrets.org/influence/

https://www.opensecrets.org/elections/

Re: Net Neutrality to Get U.S. Senate Vote as Democrats Force Issue

#87

Post by lurr »

Steltek wrote: post #50
renlo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that was the point the article was positing; it's a symbolic vote to get Republicans on the record for their support of an unpopular position.

I think what people fail to realize is that it's not unpopular enough and not with the right people. For the GOP base, they may disagree wholeheartedly but what are they going to do? Vote for a abortionist gun-grabbing Democrat? For Dems, the best use of these things is barrage the election cycle with negative news about the GOP. Failed policies, bad ideas, myopic leadership. Bad bad bad bad. Suck the energy right ou…

It's something to use for undecided voters and something to rile up the democratic base.

Re: Net Neutrality to Get U.S. Senate Vote as Democrats Force Issue

#88

Post by meddlepal »

awalton wrote: post #82
meddlepal wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that some Republican senators have historically been pretty shitty on the topic of FDA, EPA and banking regulation but this false narrative of all Republicans are evil needs to stop.

> this false narrative of all Republicans are evil needs to stop. Then perhaps they should stop being evil. Republicans should fight the evil within their own party and drive it out. They should ask for the resignation of abusers, and voters should fire the ones that don't resign. Republicans shouldn't throw money behind suspected child molesters. Republicans shouldn't rescind laws that the vast majority of Americans…

Framing it as "Good" vs "Evil" is half the problem. The real issue is a lot of the left have assigned morality to policy decisions and concepts about how government should work. You may strongly disagree with scaling back the EPA, FDA, banking regulation, Net Neutrality and who knows what other regulations but that does not scaling or removing regulation evil.

The rhetoric from the left that any disagreement with the left is "evil" is a really sad development for the United States and democracy. It has a chilling effect on any kind of debate once you brand your opponents as "evil".

Re: Net Neutrality to Get U.S. Senate Vote as Democrats Force Issue

#89

Post by lurr »

philovivero wrote: post #61
Steltek wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what people fail to realize is that it's not unpopular enough and not with the right people. For the GOP base, they may disagree wholeheartedly but what are they going to do? Vote for a abortionist gun-grabbing Democrat? For Dems, the best use of these things is barrage the election cycle with negative news about the GOP. Failed policies, bad ideas, myopic leadership. Bad bad bad bad. Suck the energy right ou…

Also, everyone to the right of Antifa have been told Net Neutrality was disguised legislation to censor conservative opinions. Given how completely Twitter, Facebook, Google, et al censor right-leaning political opinions, and they're big pro-NN orgs, it wasn't a hard sell. Unfortunately, NN has become yet another casualty in these weird post-fact times.

> Given how completely Twitter, Facebook, Google, et al censor right-leaning political opinions

Right-leaning opinions which violate their TOS.

big difference. I'm pro merit based immigration and feel entirely comfortable tweeting that (if I had a twitter, never saw the point).

Re: Net Neutrality to Get U.S. Senate Vote as Democrats Force Issue

#90

Post by lurr »

viridian wrote: post #68
oceanstone wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't mention the largest voting block, voters who don't strongly identify with either party.

Unfortunately that voting block doesn't line up with reality, as least from the stats I know for the presidential elections. A given voter that voted for party X's candidate four years ago, if they vote again, will vote for party X's candidate about 92% of the time. This means that in the pool of 'likely voters', the two parties are realistically fighting over 8% of hearts and minds.

Then why didn't clinton win easily?
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