The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds • Hacker News Board

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#141

Post by Cthulhu_ » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:44 PM UTC

cableshaft wrote: post #85

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #4

I am terrified about giving smartphones to my kids. France's new rule (no smartphones in schools - no exceptions) is genius, and I applaud them for that. What is a supercomputer in your pocket, with access to a significant portion of the sum total of human knowledge, good for, for most people? Playing fucking candy crush. We wish that we, humans, were better, but we are not. So what can we do about it? I have no idea…

I had a TI Calculator in my pocket and I learned first learned how to program on it during classes from 7th grade on. I made all sorts of text-based games: rpgs, text-based tetris, action games, fighting games (which was basically just pick an attack and a different formula with random numbers would happen that said how much hp you hurt the opponent), etc. But 'smartphones' nowadays makes it difficult for you to crea…

Nowadays you can get much cheaper all-purpose computers though; if kids are tinkerers like you were, they will find a way, either on their smartphones or on a raspberry pi or whatever. And if they don't - accept it, they're not you, and they'll probably end up better off than you did.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#142

Post by mmirate » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:44 PM UTC

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #4

I am terrified about giving smartphones to my kids. France's new rule (no smartphones in schools - no exceptions) is genius, and I applaud them for that. What is a supercomputer in your pocket, with access to a significant portion of the sum total of human knowledge, good for, for most people? Playing fucking candy crush. We wish that we, humans, were better, but we are not. So what can we do about it? I have no idea…

> there will always be people who choose trivial entertainment, and there will always be folks who chase knowledge and self improvement

That's why the entire thing seems like a non-issue to me. If some people don't want to do anything useful with their lives, then who are we to prohibit them from continuing to do-nothing and thereby starving themselves?

(Of course, we already, rightfully, prohibit people from harming&stealing-from each other; that's beside my point.)

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#143

Post by zxcvvcxz » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:45 PM UTC

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #4

I am terrified about giving smartphones to my kids. France's new rule (no smartphones in schools - no exceptions) is genius, and I applaud them for that. What is a supercomputer in your pocket, with access to a significant portion of the sum total of human knowledge, good for, for most people? Playing fucking candy crush. We wish that we, humans, were better, but we are not. So what can we do about it? I have no idea…

This is exactly why I believe Basic Income would be a Big Joke.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#144

Post by mifoew3 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:45 PM UTC

Danihan wrote: post #83

vorotato wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing at all to do with socialism.

These are government schools, are they not? Paid for by tax dollars?

So schools cant set rules? Because of socialism? My nephew can't bring his cat to math class, or play nintendo switch during english. Does that mean he's being oppressed by socialist policies? Because I call it common sense.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#145

Post by audaxion » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:45 PM UTC

techman9 wrote: post #113

matchagaucho wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning smartphones because of distracting apps is equivalent to banning guitars because of heavy metal music. It's the content, not the tool. Schools should be teaching kids how to use these tools to create content; not just passively consume.

This to me smacks of fear and really some perverse form of protectionism. The whole idea of "schooling" is built upon the premise that there is some fundamental set of knowledge that it's important for students to master before they can function in the world. However, with the advent of computers, the internet, and their miniaturization in the form of smart phones, any piece of human knowledge is instantly retrievabl…

It's context. The purpose of memorization, etc. is so that when you look at more complex ideas and concepts, you're not wasting cognitive load on foundational concepts like basic arithmetic.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#146

Post by ambivalents » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:46 PM UTC

Does anyone have ideas as to how one could get involved in combatting these effects? I mean as a cause to fight for, where one could make an impact on others' (particularly the younger gen) lives.

I'm aware of the organization Time Well Spent led by Tristan Harris, and have signed up to volunteer (but have not heard back). In the meantime, what can I do as an individual? This is something I've grown to really care about, but am not sure what to do on an individual level besides my own damage-mitigation tactics (deleting FB, etc.)

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#147

Post by bhhaskin » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:48 PM UTC

meesterdude wrote: post #78

It's ok to use your phone. It's not OK when your phone use disrupts your relationships or consumes more time than you'd really want. What helped me, is backing away from services. Uninstall apps from your phone and use a web browser to visit them. You don't have to stop using them if you don't want to, just make them harder to get to and less noisy. My phone is mostly for texts and phone calls now, and I don't do muc…

Right, a phone is a tool like any other. It's all about how you use it.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#148

Post by ashark » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:49 PM UTC

131012 wrote: post #122

matchagaucho wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning smartphones because of distracting apps is equivalent to banning guitars because of heavy metal music. It's the content, not the tool. Schools should be teaching kids how to use these tools to create content; not just passively consume.

It is the tool too. Former teacher here: I taught open project classes, one class with old school desktop computers and one with iPads. The difference between the two techs was immense. Desktops are made for productivity. You have a mouse, a keyboard. It's easy to type weird characters, copy/paste, save, use office suite, etc. Yeah, you know that. You're HN. Ipads are made for consumerism. They lack a good typing dev…

I'm strongly on the side of less tech in (most) classrooms, especially for younger kids, but iPads are pretty awesome if what you're creating involves video, recording audio anywhere other than at a desk, remote-controlling anything, drawing with a pencil/pen-like interface, or any number of other tasks that your average desktop or laptop can't support well without extra hardware, if at all.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#149

Post by vorotato » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:50 PM UTC

Danihan wrote: post #100

vorotato wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public Schooling is a socialist policy, taking smartphones isn't. Giving every student a smartphone would be socialism in this context. However nobody is talking about that.

And the curriculum is determined by the government, correct? And the intent of banning smartphones is to force all students to pay more attention to that curriculum, correct?

Government is not socialism. Indoctrination is also not socialism. You seem to be conflating the authoritarian/libertarian axis with socialism/capitalism axis. It is authoritarian, it isn't socialist because there's nothing about it inherent to socialism even though yes it is happening within a socialist structure. I think the more accurate sentence is "This is an obnoxious kind of authoritarianism". For example you can have a very socialist, very libertarian governmental structure. Some individuals view libertarian and socialist as opposites but actually they can completely coexist. It just takes viewing both corporations and governments as structures limiting your individual liberty. This kind of authoritarian policy can happen in either a capitalist or socialist environment.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#150

Post by _sdegutis » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:51 PM UTC

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #4

I am terrified about giving smartphones to my kids. France's new rule (no smartphones in schools - no exceptions) is genius, and I applaud them for that. What is a supercomputer in your pocket, with access to a significant portion of the sum total of human knowledge, good for, for most people? Playing fucking candy crush. We wish that we, humans, were better, but we are not. So what can we do about it? I have no idea…

This is the reason I don't see any hope of us making money on the App Store - we refuse to give into the "portable casino" economy of gaming apps, feeding people's micro-idling addictions, just to fill our pockets. We made a simple app (Bubble Maker[1]) which we intentionally made very different from other apps: it's just a bubble simulator and nothing else. No points, no micro-transactions, no social media aspect, just play with bubbles. And it's doing pretty badly in the App Store because none of the major app reviewers will review it on account of how it "looks too simple", not realizing that's the whole point. I guess this is what voting with our downloads has come to.

[1] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bubble-maker-relaxing-way-to...