The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds • Hacker News Board

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#91

Post by worldsayshi » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:20 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #51

IpV8 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the massive progress in science, medical, renewable energy, etc. are pretty good problems to be solving. The silly games and facebooks are only a problem for those who choose to participate in them.

I stopped believing in progress personally. Progress doesn't help you in many important part of life. We're spending too much time on science, and often to fix economic / political errors of the past.

I empathize with what you're saying. But the error is in the meaning we put into the word "progress".

We need to talk a lot more about "false progress". Because that's what it is if we create more problems than we solve when society changes.

It would be irrational to not believe in "true progress", any change that solves more of our common problems than it creates new one's.

If we can't have true progress then human society has kind of lost its point. It seems illogical to say that it's not possible. But we often seem lost at adopting the right process for it.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#92

Post by Chaebixi » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:21 PM UTC

vorotato wrote: post #62

Chaebixi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also just going to say, if you had taken away my smartphone/internet in highschool "Smartphone" and "internet" are two separate categories, and the former is strongly associated variously low-value, deliberately-addicting behaviors. The internet still has valuable corners, but the action is now where the monitization's at. High school (and younger!) kids (generally) using their smartphones for stuff like getting st…

Do you have evidence for that claim? You know your parents said the same about you with your computer games. In reality, yes you played games, you also learned more. The truth is you used more of your time than they did and some of it was productive, and some of it wasn't. VSauce has a good episode about how every generation thinks this about the next, and there has never been any evidence for it being true about any…

> Do you have evidence for that claim? You know your parents said the same about you with your computer games.

You're asking me to provide you evidence of a widely written about social phenomena while simultaneously claiming to know about my youth and what my parents thought about my activities?

>>> Most of the profitable skills I know are self-taught, from the internet.

If you want to know more about how the current smartphone and internet ecosystem is deliberately designed to be addictive, I suggest you go teach yourself from the internet. A lot's been written the last few months.

While you're at it, read up on loot boxes, since you seem to be interested in computer games.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#93

Post by solitus » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:21 PM UTC

padobson wrote: post #86

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #4

I am terrified about giving smartphones to my kids. France's new rule (no smartphones in schools - no exceptions) is genius, and I applaud them for that. What is a supercomputer in your pocket, with access to a significant portion of the sum total of human knowledge, good for, for most people? Playing fucking candy crush. We wish that we, humans, were better, but we are not. So what can we do about it? I have no idea…

France's new rule (no smartphones in schools - no exceptions) is genius, and I applaud them for that. I agree that some people will use the awesome power of pocket super computers for frivolous things, and some won't, but I don't think banning smartphones in schools is the answer. The folks empowered by smartphones will suddenly have less power, diminishing themselves and their contribution to society. The folks who…

I'd love to know the current percentage of school kids doing productive things with smartphones during school hours!

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#94

Post by Danihan » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:21 PM UTC

craigsmansion wrote: post #63

Danihan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you could have the answer to nearly any question at your fingertips, and yet it's arbitrarily taken away? How is it not a punishment?

> Because you could have the answer to nearly any question at your fingertips, and yet it's arbitrarily taken away? There's a person there, usually in the front. They have the answers in their head . It is their job to put those answers in your head . To transfer those answers you can ask them a question. It's what they're there for.

And yet, filling my head up with over a decade of information from a public school education was essentially useless to me.

Studying programming on my own (not offered in my schools) was vastly more important.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#95

Post by craigsmansion » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:22 PM UTC

always_good wrote: post #30

_m8fo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious to why you think not having a smartphone constitutes a punishment.

When I was in school, all I wanted to do was read the Sitepoint forums and learn more about HTML / CSS / PHP. I had one teacher that took me up on my offer to let me use the one class computer when my work was done and that's exactly what I did with it. Then other kids opted into my sweet deal and ended up ruining it by causing too much disturbance around it. Back then, I always resented the fact that it was more acc…

> For example, imagine if you can take out your smartphone when you're done with your work AND you are averaging above a 85% in the class.

Imagine taking out a book on a different subject when you're done and are keeping up, and no teacher complaining about that, ever. Then imagine being the teacher not having to deal with the other kids protesting because a single one of them is allowed to use his phone in class including all the teenage drama that you're definitely not getting paid enough for.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#96

Post by vorotato » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:22 PM UTC

Danihan wrote: post #83

vorotato wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing at all to do with socialism.

These are government schools, are they not? Paid for by tax dollars?

Public Schooling is a socialist policy, taking smartphones isn't. Giving every student a smartphone would be socialism in this context. However nobody is talking about that.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#97

Post by ictoan » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:22 PM UTC

rflrob wrote: post #44

I'm always a little skeptical of arguments that new technologies are actually damaging . I'm willing to accept that people are sometimes unhappy adjusting to new things (and that people are unhappy with how other people use their new technology), but people have been saying that [new technology here] is bad for thousands of years—Plato even complained about writing because it's "bad for memory"[1]. If you frame the q…

If you read the article, it did mention Socrates warned about writing. Maybe Plato did say it as well.

Anyways, your point was brought up in the article.

Did you read the article?

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#98

Post by Momquist » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:22 PM UTC

Danihan wrote: post #59

orf wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which will primarily hurt the ones who were using them for more interesting purposes. I guess they can record the lecture with a voice recorder (very cheap on Amazon) and get the lecture slides afterwards, like everyone else. It's pretty simple: thing A is widely misused and is causing problems to 99% of people. Banning it has a huge net-positive effect, despite having perhaps a negative effect on 1% of people. Wor…

You could use the same logic to ban all sorts of things for adults. And many governments do, to everyone's detriment. Alcohol prohibition says hello. It's exactly this type of generalized authoritarian philosophy that keeps the War on Drugs going strong.

If the ban is limited to a specific space/community (school or classroom), then it's completely different from alcohol prohibition and more akin to the ban of smoking in restaurants, which is accepted by most people even the smokers themselves.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#99

Post by SamPutnam » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:23 PM UTC

I stopped using a smartphone 2 months ago, switching to a flipphone with wi-fi calling. When I made the switch, the employees in the mobile store acted as if they had lost one of their own and outwardly displayed the 7 stages of grief for my old phone as I returned it for something without a touch screen...

1. Shock & Denial - ...I was asked if I was 'sure about this' more than 10 times during the transfer and repeatedly dissuaded from making the "down"grade.

2. Pain & Guilt- ...I was told that no one had done this before, that it was not recommended for any customer, and skeptically prodded as if in attempts to uncover that I lacked the qualities and smartphone use cases that make one human.

3. Anger & Bargaining- ...As one of the employees started setting up the phone for me, another came over, asked what model it was, and snickered loudly before saying how sh&@$#y the outdated messaging system was on the phone. I begrudgingly sat through spiels on several other models that didn't fit my requirement of 'just no apps'.

4. "Depression", Reflection, Loneliness- ...The 4 employees started talking amongst themselves in a ring about the old days, before any of them had a smartphone. There were noticeable pauses and head tilts throughout the conversation. I had been here an hour at this point.

5. The Upward Turn- ...They handed me the phone and one even said he envied me and wished me good luck.

6. Reconstruction & Working Through- ...I signed the contract and they showed me how to do wi-fi calling, cellular, and send messages, the only features I had wanted in the first place.

7. Acceptance & Hope- ...The employee who originally helped me said I "just had" to email him back to tell him what it was like on the "outside".

It was the most surreal experience, a basic exchange of products and services that from the perspective of everyone around me was akin to renouncing my citizenship.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#100

Post by Danihan » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 8:23 PM UTC

vorotato wrote: post #96

Danihan wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are government schools, are they not? Paid for by tax dollars?

Public Schooling is a socialist policy, taking smartphones isn't. Giving every student a smartphone would be socialism in this context. However nobody is talking about that.

And the curriculum is determined by the government, correct?

And the intent of banning smartphones is to force all students to pay more attention to that curriculum, correct?