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The cholesterol myth

huffingtonpost.com

11–20 of 23 posts

Re: The cholesterol myth

#11
post #9

Please be aware of this dubious source. Not only is HuffPo basically a bastion for crackpots with outrageous anti-establishment medical claims, but Dr. Mercola is on a sort-of one man war for crazy. For example, he believes that Aspartame is surely a deadly neurotoxin that EVERYONE uses daily: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/aspartame-health-ri... And also, pasteurized milk is surely bad, right? http://www.h…

For a slightly less fringy defense of this view, check out the International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics: http://www.thincs.org/news.htm

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

I just wanted to get the word out: Dr. Mercola is not a good source for ANY health advice. He's not even a real doctor, he's an Osteopath.

Re: The cholesterol myth

#12

Please be aware of this dubious source. Not only is HuffPo basically a bastion for crackpots with outrageous anti-establishment medical claims, but Dr. Mercola is on a sort-of one man war for crazy. For example, he believes that Aspartame is surely a deadly neurotoxin that EVERYONE uses daily: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/aspartame-health-ri... And also, pasteurized milk is surely bad, right? http://www.h…

My take on the article is that:

1) The author is crazy and shouldn't be trusted.

2) Most of what he says in this article is accurate.

Stopped clocks, and all that. So, if you're on statins please do look into their actual effectiveness--especially their impact on overall mortality statistics, not just coronary heart disease. But you probably don't want to go looking to this guy for that information.

Re: The cholesterol myth

#13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a slightly less fringy defense of this view, check out the International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics: http://www.thincs.org/news.htm

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. I just wanted to get the word out: Dr. Mercola is not a good source for ANY health advice. He's not even a real doctor, he's an Osteopath.

D.O.'s in the United States are not all that different from M.D.'s anymore--they're certainly qualified as "real doctors" by the rest of the medical community. I would still trust an MD slightly more, but DO != quack, even if this particular DO happens to be a quack.

Re: The cholesterol myth

#14
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a slightly less fringy defense of this view, check out the International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics: http://www.thincs.org/news.htm

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. I just wanted to get the word out: Dr. Mercola is not a good source for ANY health advice. He's not even a real doctor, he's an Osteopath.

According to, for example, the Mayo Clinic, D.O.s are in fact real doctors: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/osteopath/AN02093

I had a D.O. as my primary care physician for a few years, and he seemed just like other doctors: oh, look, you're sick. Here's a prescription. I'm not sure if that similarity is exactly a recommendation, but there it is. :)

Re: The cholesterol myth

#15
If you want better sources:

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Statins and all-cause mortality in high-risk primary prevention: a meta-analysis of 11 randomized controlled trials involving 65,229 participants.

"This literature-based meta-analysis did not find evidence for the benefit of statin therapy on all-cause mortality in a high-risk primary prevention set-up."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20585067

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Unintended effects of statins in men and women in England and Wales: population based cohort study using the QResearch database

"Based on the 20% threshold for cardiovascular risk, for women the NNT with any statin to prevent one case of cardiovascular disease over five years was 37 (95% confidence interval 27 to 64) and for oesophageal cancer was 1266 (850 to 3460) and for men the respective values were 33 (24 to 57) and 1082 (711 to 2807). In women the NNH for an additional case of acute renal failure over five years was 434 (284 to 783), of moderate or severe myopathy was 259 (186 to 375), of moderate or severe liver dysfunction was 136 (109 to 175), and of cataract was 33 (28 to 38). Overall, the NNHs and NNTs for men were similar to those for women, except for myopathy where the NNH was 91 (74 to 112)."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874131/

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Cholesterol lowering, cardiovascular diseases, and the rosuvastatin-JUPITER controversy: a critical reappraisal.

"The results of the trial do not support the use of statin treatment for primary prevention of cardiovascular diseases and raise troubling questions concerning the role of commercial sponsors."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20585068

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Effect of the magnitude of lipid lowering on risk of elevated liver enzymes, rhabdomyolysis, and cancer: insights from large randomized statin trials.

" Risk of statin-associated elevated liver enzymes or rhabdomyolysis is not related to the magnitude of LDL-C lowering. However, the risk of cancer is significantly associated with lower achieved LDL-C levels. These findings suggest that drug- and dose-specific effects are more important determinants of liver and muscle toxicity than magnitude of LDL-C lowering. Furthermore, the cardiovascular benefits of low achieved levels of LDL-C may in part be offset by an increased risk of cancer."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17662392

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Statins and risk of polyneuropathy

"Long-term exposure to statins may substantially increase the risk of polyneuropathy."

http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/abstract/58/9/1333

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Relation between cholesterol levels and neuropsychiatric disorders

" It is shown that low cholesterol levels in serum are associated and related to different neuropsychiatric disorders. Lowered cholesterol levels seem likely to be linked to higher rates of early death, suicide, aggressive and violent behaviour, personality disorders, and possibly depression, dementia and penal confinement among young males. Further studies are needed to confirm the evidence currently available and to relate more accurate diagnoses with hypocholesterolemia."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19263395

Re: The cholesterol myth

#16
post #3

As someone who's trying to sort through the frequently-conflicting information out there on health and diet, I found a lot of this article interesting, though I felt sometimes like the author was trying to sell me something more than he was trying to educate me. Then this caught my attention: > Address your emotional challenges. I particularly love the Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) for stress management. Curious…

One thing I've found interesting in my readings is that sunscreen beyond ~SPF15 (Zinc and/or Titanium dioxide only, no benzene chemicals) are directly correlated with skin cancer. As the sales of sunscreen go up, so do the rates of skin cancer, why? #1 the main chemical used to 'protect' our skin actually has a breakdown chain to benzene, think all the fuss over Potassium/Sodium benzoate in Coke/Pepsi, but absorbed i…

> As the sales of sunscreen go up, so do the rates of skin cancer, why?

Not to detract from your possibly researchable argument but A) the ozone layer is getting thinner and thinner and B) the people buying the sunscreen are not necessarily the ones getting skin cancer.

Re: The cholesterol myth

#17
OK, software is compiling so I've got some downtime. Here goes, in classic flamewar style.

Yet when I first opened my medical practice in the mid 80s, cholesterol, and the fear that yours was too high was rarely talked about. Somewhere along the way however, cholesterol became a household word -- something that you must keep as low as possible, or suffer the consequences.

Yes, between the 1980s and now, dozens of clinical trials have been completed showing a dose-response relationship between LDL-cholesterol and risk for myocardial infarction. This is what changed "along the way."

You are probably aware that there are many myths that portray fat and cholesterol as one of the worst foods you can consume. Please understand that these myths are actually harming your health.

What is true is that, for a typical American diet, ~70% of the cholesterol in your body is produced by your body. The actual uptake of cholesterol per se is, truly, not thought to be that important. Diet more broadly, however, is important, since your diet supplies your liver with the raw components for cholesterol synthesis. Diet matters. Genetics matter. ~50% of the population variability in cholesterol levels is due to genetic factors, and ~50% is due to genetic factors.

In addition, the AHA updated their guidelines in 2004, lowering the recommended level of LDL cholesterol from 130 to LDL to less than 100, or even less than 70 for patients at very high risk. In order to achieve these outrageous and dangerously low targets, you typically need to take multiple cholesterol-lowering drugs. So the guidelines instantly increased the market for these dangerous drugs. Now, with testing children's cholesterol levels, they're increasing their market even more.

These are evidence-based guidelines, not wantonly chosen. Again, there is a dose-response relationship between LDL-C and risk for vascular disease. The lower your LDL-C, the lower your risk of vascular disease will be. The author presents no evidence of harm from having an LDL-C of 70, nor am I aware of any evidence suggesting so.

No physician that I know routinely worries about total cholesterol, and furthermore a high TC is almost always caused by high LDL-C, so I see this as a red herring.

Notice please that LDL and HDL are lipoproteins -- fats combined with proteins. There is only one cholesterol. There is no such thing as "good" or "bad" cholesterol.

Agreed. There are good and bad lipoproteins; it's not so simple for HDL, but most evidence suggests that LDL - especially small, dense LDL particles - is harmful at most concentrations. Really, this quote from Ron Rosedale seem completely reasonable to me.

Cholesterol is a vital component of every cell membrane on Earth. In other words, there is no life on Earth that can live without cholesterol.

This is trivially true, but meaningless. Water forms 70% of your body. This doesn't mean that you can't kill yourself by drinking too much water (acute hyponatremia --> brainstem herniation, anyone?).

If your cholesterol level is too low you will not be able to use the sun to generate sufficient levels of vitamin D.

But wait, I thought we just established that cholesterol != lipoproteins? If so, there should be no problem with driving down LDL-C to very low levels. More seriously, there must be some empirically-identifiable cholesterol level below which you fail to generate vitamin D. I suspect that level is impossible to achieve, and therefore think that this is also a red herring.

Additionally, it provides some intuitive feedback that if cholesterol were so dangerous, why would your body use it as precursor for vitamin D and virtually all of the steroid hormones in your body?

This is silly. Why, if oxygen is dangerous, do we have an electron transport chain? Let's not get teleological up in here.

Sally Fallon, the president of the Weston A. Price Foundation, and Mary Enig, Ph.D, an expert in lipid biochemistry, have gone so far as to call high cholesterol "an invented disease, a 'problem' that emerged when health professionals learned how to measure cholesterol levels in the blood."

We also invented myocardial infarction at the same time, I guess.

And one meta-analysis of over 41,000 patient records found that people who take statin drugs to lower their cholesterol as much as possible may have a higher risk of cancer[...]

True. But others show the opposite (say, for prostate cancer http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/news/20100628/statins-m... ) and people who look at the balance of the evidence feel that it's not clear because the studies so far haven't really been designed to interrogate that question. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20099992

I'll try to continue with the rest of this long article later.

Re: The cholesterol myth

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. I just wanted to get the word out: Dr. Mercola is not a good source for ANY health advice. He's not even a real doctor, he's an Osteopath.

D.O.'s in the United States are not all that different from M.D.'s anymore--they're certainly qualified as "real doctors" by the rest of the medical community. I would still trust an MD slightly more, but DO != quack, even if this particular DO happens to be a quack.

The majority of the internet quackery that I come across is perpetrated by D.O.'s. There's no doubt that the anti-science, New Age-y crackpots have found a D.O. degree to be the path of least resistance.

Re: The cholesterol myth

#19
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've found interesting in my readings is that sunscreen beyond ~SPF15 (Zinc and/or Titanium dioxide only, no benzene chemicals) are directly correlated with skin cancer. As the sales of sunscreen go up, so do the rates of skin cancer, why? #1 the main chemical used to 'protect' our skin actually has a breakdown chain to benzene, think all the fuss over Potassium/Sodium benzoate in Coke/Pepsi, but absorbed i…

> As the sales of sunscreen go up, so do the rates of skin cancer, why? Not to detract from your possibly researchable argument but A) the ozone layer is getting thinner and thinner and B) the people buying the sunscreen are not necessarily the ones getting skin cancer.

The ozone layer's better now, since we banned the handful of chemicals that were depleting it and it's had years to recover.

Re: The cholesterol myth

#20

My research focuses on the human genetics of lipoproteins (casually referred to as cholesterol, though in truth they are soluble cholesterol-fatty-acid-protein-vitamin globs). I'm happy to address questions people may have on this. Though he makes some true statements, I feel that his thrust is misleading, and I'll plan to expand on this in another post. For example, you do need cholesterol to transport fat-soluble v…

So what about the potential affect a systemic inflammation might have on cholesterol mentioned in TFA? If a person were suffering from some sort of systemic inflammation (would something like Crohn's Disease count?) have an increase in cholesterol?
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