Albert Hofmann discovers the effects of LSD (1943) • Hacker News Board

Re: Albert Hofmann discovers the effects of LSD (1943)

#11

Post by matt4077 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 9:38 AM UTC

cairo_x wrote: post #7

You can't get high from LSD by touching it. Albert is a liar. He nibbled some. My theory is, he knew those in the know know that this is an impossible way to get high, which is why he stuck with it (a crafty wink). He could have simply said he got a little on his finger and touched his mouth, but he stuck with the skin absorption story. Just a little harmless tinfoil.

It's one of those 'lies' that benefit humanity, considering the alternative would have been not to share the knowledge with the world. Because he was obviously fearing difficulties with his employer if he admitted to such a breach of standard protocols.

It reminds me of one of the early anatomists–Leonardo da Vinci, maybe? They found the cause of one of the leading causes of death at the time: appendicitis. In their publication, they invented a story about an ailing soldier being killed in such a way that the inflamed appendix was exposed. It was a lie, and a rather obvious one. But it was necessary because dissection was forbidden at the time.

Re: Albert Hofmann discovers the effects of LSD (1943)

#12

Post by matt4077 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 9:43 AM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #4

What’s interesting is when LSD was first discovered and popularized with psychiatrists, it was considered a “model psychosis” - inducing a temporary state of psychosis which researchers could use to study mental problems. That theory was discredited in the late 60’s when it got banned (it was one of the reasons why it was supposed to have no medical value). I believe there’s a lot of truth to it, from my experience i…

I can't speak to the similarity psychosis, never having experienced it.

But, in a similar vain, I think anyone who has ever had an experience with LSD was simply blown away by the "Deep Dream" visualisations. The similarity is so obvious that one cannot escape the conclusion that neural nets are actually similar to the brain in some profound ways, especially if you consider that "Deep Dream" was an open-ended experiment, not intended to create such effects.

Re: Albert Hofmann discovers the effects of LSD (1943)

#13

Post by shams93 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 9:46 AM UTC

sev wrote: post #5

Synaesthesia wrote: post #4

What’s interesting is when LSD was first discovered and popularized with psychiatrists, it was considered a “model psychosis” - inducing a temporary state of psychosis which researchers could use to study mental problems. That theory was discredited in the late 60’s when it got banned (it was one of the reasons why it was supposed to have no medical value). I believe there’s a lot of truth to it, from my experience i…

Looking at the definition of psychosis: > a severe mental disorder in which thought and emotions are so impaired that contact is lost with external reality. Based on my research, typical (and even greater than typical) recreational doses of LSD do not cause a “severe mental disorder” as described in the definition. At “raves”, for example, lots of people are under the influence and yet they have not lost contact with…

It only has that effect when they gave it to people in test trials in terrible settings like mental institution s and prisons which is why Dr Leary was adamant about set and setting

Re: Albert Hofmann discovers the effects of LSD (1943)

#14

Post by golergka » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 9:59 AM UTC

INTPenis wrote: post #9

I love reading his trip report, it really pulls you in. But what irks me is the website. I opened it on my pixel c and started reading, after about one paragraph the whole screen went dark. I didn't understand why, checked my screen light level from the shortcut menu but moved on thinking the light sensor was wack and wanting to keep reading. Several paragraphs after the first image I see the damn pop up. This frenzy…

Works very well with javascript disabled. If you leave it disabled by default, most of today's internet becomes significantly better.

Re: Albert Hofmann discovers the effects of LSD (1943)

#15

Post by golergka » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 10:02 AM UTC

sev wrote: post #5

Synaesthesia wrote: post #4

What’s interesting is when LSD was first discovered and popularized with psychiatrists, it was considered a “model psychosis” - inducing a temporary state of psychosis which researchers could use to study mental problems. That theory was discredited in the late 60’s when it got banned (it was one of the reasons why it was supposed to have no medical value). I believe there’s a lot of truth to it, from my experience i…

Looking at the definition of psychosis: > a severe mental disorder in which thought and emotions are so impaired that contact is lost with external reality. Based on my research, typical (and even greater than typical) recreational doses of LSD do not cause a “severe mental disorder” as described in the definition. At “raves”, for example, lots of people are under the influence and yet they have not lost contact with…

> At “raves”, for example, lots of people are under the influence and yet they have not lost contact with external reality.

Taking LSD is a strange choice for a rave, IMO; you want less visual and audio stimulation under it's influence, not more.

MDMA, MDA, 2CB, amphetamines, mephedrone and other similar substances (and their mixes in ecstasy pills) are much more rave-friendly.

Re: Albert Hofmann discovers the effects of LSD (1943)

#16

Post by DanBC » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 10:03 AM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #4

What’s interesting is when LSD was first discovered and popularized with psychiatrists, it was considered a “model psychosis” - inducing a temporary state of psychosis which researchers could use to study mental problems. That theory was discredited in the late 60’s when it got banned (it was one of the reasons why it was supposed to have no medical value). I believe there’s a lot of truth to it, from my experience i…

Psychosis is an umbrella term that covers a wide range of experiences and causes.

LSD might simulate some of these experiences, but all it really tells researchers about is LSD induced psychosis.

Re: Albert Hofmann discovers the effects of LSD (1943)

#17

Post by theVurt » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 10:05 AM UTC

sev wrote: post #5

Synaesthesia wrote: post #4

What’s interesting is when LSD was first discovered and popularized with psychiatrists, it was considered a “model psychosis” - inducing a temporary state of psychosis which researchers could use to study mental problems. That theory was discredited in the late 60’s when it got banned (it was one of the reasons why it was supposed to have no medical value). I believe there’s a lot of truth to it, from my experience i…

Looking at the definition of psychosis: > a severe mental disorder in which thought and emotions are so impaired that contact is lost with external reality. Based on my research, typical (and even greater than typical) recreational doses of LSD do not cause a “severe mental disorder” as described in the definition. At “raves”, for example, lots of people are under the influence and yet they have not lost contact with…

Its only a matter of dosage. If everyone at a rave have been ingesting over 800ug you would see a very different event. Typical blotter will have anywhere between 60ug - 150ug.

Re: Albert Hofmann discovers the effects of LSD (1943)

#18

Post by 3131s » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 10:16 AM UTC

cairo_x wrote: post #7

You can't get high from LSD by touching it. Albert is a liar. He nibbled some. My theory is, he knew those in the know know that this is an impossible way to get high, which is why he stuck with it (a crafty wink). He could have simply said he got a little on his finger and touched his mouth, but he stuck with the skin absorption story. Just a little harmless tinfoil.

From everything I know, that's not true of crystal LSD. Ever heard of thumbprinting?

Re: Albert Hofmann discovers the effects of LSD (1943)

#19

Post by bionoid » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 10:21 AM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #4

What’s interesting is when LSD was first discovered and popularized with psychiatrists, it was considered a “model psychosis” - inducing a temporary state of psychosis which researchers could use to study mental problems. That theory was discredited in the late 60’s when it got banned (it was one of the reasons why it was supposed to have no medical value). I believe there’s a lot of truth to it, from my experience i…

> I believe there’s a lot of truth to it, from my experience it totally matches a mini psychotic event.

Jan Irvin at GnosticMedia has an interesting article about this "Entheogens: What’s in a Name? The Untold History of Psychedelic Spirituality, Social Control, and the CIA" [0] (note: this is part 4 of a 5-part series).

"Today there are many names for drug substances that we commonly refer to as “hallucinogens,” “psychedelics,” “psychoactives,” or “entheogens,” et al. But it hasn’t always been that way. The study of the history and etymology of the words for these fascinating substances takes us, surprisingly, right into the heart of military intelligence, and what became the CIA’s infamous MKULTRA mind control program, and reveals how the names themselves were used in marketing these substances to the public, and especially to the youth and countercultures."

edit: There is some interesting etymology here, Irvin claims it evolved from the word "psychotomimetic" (mimicking psychosis)

[0] https://www.gnosticmedia.com/Entheogens_WhatsinaName_Psyched...

Re: Albert Hofmann discovers the effects of LSD (1943)

#20

Post by datashaman » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 10:25 AM UTC

golergka wrote: post #15

sev wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the definition of psychosis: > a severe mental disorder in which thought and emotions are so impaired that contact is lost with external reality. Based on my research, typical (and even greater than typical) recreational doses of LSD do not cause a “severe mental disorder” as described in the definition. At “raves”, for example, lots of people are under the influence and yet they have not lost contact with…

> At “raves”, for example, lots of people are under the influence and yet they have not lost contact with external reality. Taking LSD is a strange choice for a rave, IMO; you want less visual and audio stimulation under it's influence, not more. MDMA, MDA, 2CB, amphetamines, mephedrone and other similar substances (and their mixes in ecstasy pills) are much more rave-friendly.

Candy-flipping is not uncommon at raves - that's taking LSD with MDMA / Ecstasy.