Live data from Hacker News

Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

bloomberg.com

51–60 of 270 posts

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#51
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What opinion is expressed here? There's a vague implication of "this is unfounded" they cannot even be bothered to put in clear words, much less make a case for, while trying to make up for that by repetition. So it's not okay to "think of the children", ever, but let's play good Samaritan for what is nothing more than a meme because it's a "valid opinion". Got it.

The observation is that whenever kids fixate on some new activity, the previous generation will always become extremely suspicious that it's harmful. If this hasn't been borne out in the past, then we can't take those suspicions as much evidence that there's anything to worry about.

But we're soley not operating on "extreme suspicions because something is new" here. The letter does cite some studies, for starters. And you're mixing up "haven't always borne out exactly as predicted by the most worried people" and "have never borne out".

There was a time when using x-ray machines in shoe shops seemed totally benign, like a fun, useful thing. Suspicions about that "new thing" as well as others were correct. Including here, that list starts with "comic book" and ends with "internet and facebook" addiction, which are absolutely worth studying.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#52
post #2

This seems like a weird request. Are iPhones supposed to be more addictive than Android phones or something?

I suppose its possible to argue that they are by virtue of the superiority of their UI design and a more robust app ecosystem. In my own experience, I find myself far more impulsive about phone use on an iPhone than when I was using android devices.

> I find myself far more impulsive about phone use on an iPhone than when I was using android devices

Looking through a tinted lens, is it possible that iOS devices are just nicer to use, leading you to use them more?

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#53

1950's Can we have a study of Comic Book addiction in Children. 1960's Can we have a study of Television addiction in Children. 1970's Can we have a study of Dungeons and Dragons addiction in children 1980's Can we have a study of Console game addiction in Children. 1990's Can we have a study of Computer game addiction in Children. 2000's Can we have a study of Internet addiction in Children. 2010's Can we have a stu…

Exactly! If it wasn't a problem before then it won't be a problem today either. Nothing fallacious about that. The evolution of technology usually has very limited impact; WW1 and WW2 were barely more destructive than the wars that preceded them, after all, and WW3 will surely be no worse.

Edit: The above is sarcasm. It probably deserves the downvotes, but at least I want to make clear that I don't mean this stuff. The amount of psychological research, behavior tracking, and personalization that goes into keeping people "engaged" with their phones has never been seen before. It just seems so outlandish to argue that it won't be a problem because we turned out fine despite having TV as kids, nevermind that it only offered a handful of completely un-personalized TV channels and zero user tracking (apart from the tiny fraction with a Nielsen box). I just don't get it, especially here on HN where I'm sure many people have an idea of what's going on behind e.g. the Facebook feed.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#54
I'm sure Apple can create some more granular controls to restrict certain apps, but it's probably going to hurt CalSTRS.

I took a look at their 13F filing and some of their holdings include Google, Facebook and Twitter. They should probably start with divesting that if they feel really strongly about this.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#55

1950's Can we have a study of Comic Book addiction in Children. 1960's Can we have a study of Television addiction in Children. 1970's Can we have a study of Dungeons and Dragons addiction in children 1980's Can we have a study of Console game addiction in Children. 1990's Can we have a study of Computer game addiction in Children. 2000's Can we have a study of Internet addiction in Children. 2010's Can we have a stu…

Did any of the pre-internet Time sucks have the ability to monitor billions of people’s usage patterns and incrementally fine tune so as to increase time/money spent? No, I didn’t think so...

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#56
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen versions of several of these ruin people's lives very close to me. For example, I knew someone who played WOW to the detriment of his schooling, health, and social life. WOW is another product that is explicitly engineered to be addictive. The difference between then and now is cell phones and social media are consumed at a scale that affects almost everyone, to a degree that hasn't been seen before. It's w…

Soudns like a parenting mishap to me.

It might be and you would notice this is the norm with smartphones. Parents find it much easier to jam a smartphone in front of their child when out and about than to deal with their boredom.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#57

1950's Can we have a study of Comic Book addiction in Children. 1960's Can we have a study of Television addiction in Children. 1970's Can we have a study of Dungeons and Dragons addiction in children 1980's Can we have a study of Console game addiction in Children. 1990's Can we have a study of Computer game addiction in Children. 2000's Can we have a study of Internet addiction in Children. 2010's Can we have a stu…

What's wrong with doing all of these studies? Aren't you glad we know about the harmful effects of tobacco smoke, UV light, radiation, too much sugar etc.?

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is scientific inquiry bad? It was certainly warranted for television, and the deregulation of children's telvision in the US is widely regarded as a mistake. If there is no evidence (as for example, there is no evidence of anytbing more than a small group of people causing a brief TV panic about D&D, a remarkable preview of Facebook-like credulitiy culture?), then intentional reflection on the impact of the produ…

Why is scientific inquiry bad? The first step in scientific inquiry is identifying the problem. Since that hasn't been done -- just as it wasn't done in the other examples cited -- that suggests the motivation for "investigation" is politics rather than science. My favorite example is probably the video game moral panic. Nobody seemed to care that the juvenile crime rate took a steep turn down right around the time F…

This isn't even wrong. It's so divorced from the method as it is commonly taught it makes me wonder if there is a language barrier at play.

It's possible to inquire, "For a reasonable definition of 'addiciton' do we see those effects?"

Your cherry picked anecdote is cancelled out by mine: standards in television broadcasting for children. Let's leave subsequent anecdote bandying aside and trust in the scientific method a bit, okay?

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#59

1950's Can we have a study of Comic Book addiction in Children. 1960's Can we have a study of Television addiction in Children. 1970's Can we have a study of Dungeons and Dragons addiction in children 1980's Can we have a study of Console game addiction in Children. 1990's Can we have a study of Computer game addiction in Children. 2000's Can we have a study of Internet addiction in Children. 2010's Can we have a stu…

I'm pretty sure that there weren't studies about comic book addiction and dungeons and dragons addiction, although there were studies on the influence of violent comic books, and possible associations of violence and dissociation with reality with D&D.

Other than those two, video game, internet, and Facebook addiction are real things. And now, video games and Facebook are being intentionally and consciously designed to encourage addiction.

The only thing I'd agree with you about is that it's just as bad for adults as it is for children. Presumably, though, we generally allow adults to make their own decisions about their addictions, and just offer help when they want to break them. Also, kids are creating the habits that are going to be the substrate for their thinking over the rest of their lives. If you think somebody who got hooked on heroin in their 20s has a tough time quitting at 40, imagine somebody trying to quit at the same age but who started at 10.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#60

I think it's worth taking a look at the parental controls that Nintendo put in for the Switch. They have a video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03bAayBtcb0 I think it's worth watching, if for no other reason than to see Bowser & Bowser Jr.. iOS app link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id1190074407 Play store link: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nintendo.z... For me, the only annoyance is th…

I was delighted to find out Nintendo took the care to approach this issue the way they did. If I had children, I would definitely buy a Nintendo Switch for them because of their focus in this aspect. Since I don't have any, I bought the Switch for myself instead. =)

Its also the most pro-social council out there and its just fantastic all around. Its like they took all the greatness that was budgeted for the WiiU and pushed it off on the Switch.
Post reply on HN