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Calling for a new approach to depression

theguardian.com

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Re: Calling for a new approach to depression

#31

Post by wu-ikkyu »

drumhead wrote: post #21

I'd like to think that medical professionals and academics in the mental health field have probably been thorough enough in their research to have looked at these finding over the years. I somehow doubt a person whose graduated in Social and Political Science and has no medical or scientific background might actually know what they're talking about in relation to this. Interesting thing about the author. He was a ris…

>I'd like to think that medical professionals and academics in the mental health field have probably been thorough enough in their research to have looked at these finding over the years.

You might like to read up on the short history of modern psychiatry. You'll find a great deal of mistakes, pseudoscience, and human rights atrocities.

Re: Calling for a new approach to depression

#32

Post by ravenstine »

nixpulvis wrote: post #11
com2kid wrote: post #5

This explanation does not work for all types of depression. There are people who have wonderful lives, fulfilling jobs, happy families, who are still depressed. We need to be more careful in our language, the word depression has become overused, much like the drugs used to treat it.

Seems to me this person has a secret issue you're not aware of then...

That's why I have doubts as to how often depression is actually caused by a medical condition. Judging by myself, I suspect that a lot of people, including people who are seemingly happy and successful, have hidden disappointments that even a psychologist can't pry out of them.

Re: Calling for a new approach to depression

#33

Post by tcj_phx »

blhack wrote: post #24

There are two things that both get called "depression". Like so many other confusing things, this all is the result of fuzzy language. There is depression: the feeling of being sad. This can be triggered by all sorts of environmental factors, and is ultimately a psychological disorder that can be solved by changing environment variables. There is also depression: the neurochemcial/neurophysiological disorder that has…

> People who want to fight against the idea that these modern miracles (drugs that treat depression) are effective treatments for this debilitating, but curable disease,

The modern miracle drugs that effectively treat and cure debilitating depression are not SSRI's. Whatever benefits SSRIs have are probably a result of their influence on neurosteroids:

>> Certain antidepressant drugs such as fluoxetine and fluvoxamine, which are generally thought to affect depression by acting as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), have also been found to normalize the levels of certain neurosteroids (which are frequently deficient in depressed patients) at doses that are inactive in affecting the reuptake of serotonin. This suggests that other actions involving neurosteroids may also be at play in the effectiveness of these drugs against depression [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurosteroid#Role_in_antidepre...

Other miracle drugs are also helpful for addressing the cause. Big Pharma doesn't care about cause/effect, they just want patients on maintenance treatments.

Depressed people usually have some sort of metabolic problem, caused by thyroid problems, inadequate diet, etc. Emotional stress is usually a major factor too.

> belong in the same category as flat earth era, anti-vaxxers and now, apparently, "raw water" fans/advocates.

Where do you belong? Are you a tireless advocate for the status quo?

Re: Calling for a new approach to depression

#34

Post by greenyoda »

foobarbecue wrote: post #14
EGreg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found, over the years of being on HN, that there's a sort of forceful response that always comes to these types of comments about depression, along with downvoting. The responses say basically, "Don't talk about what you don't know. Many people have real, chemical depression, and your comment that it's a product of life circumstances is not helpful ". I was always a but puzzled about the regularity with which that…

Oddly, it was upvoted twice /and/ flagged. I guess anyone with enough reputation can bury things just by hitting a "flag" button.

It could have been flagged multiple times (flags are additive). Even articles that have hundreds of upvotes can be killed by flagging if enough people flag them.

Re: Calling for a new approach to depression

#35

Post by justasitsounds »

There seems to be an increasing number of non-academic articles, essays and books that are expressing the idea that the Serotonin hypothesis of depression is flawed. It seems like the drug industry just picked up this idea in the 70s and has been running with it (to the bank) ever since

Anecdotally, I have come to believe that SSRIs have a temporary mood-altering effect, possibly combined with a placebo effect that wears off over time - as your body adapts to the induced serotonin imbalance. The only answer from the medical profession? Increase the dose.

I saw this with my own mother. She went from being a mildly depressed retired housewife to suicidal within the space of 12 months. She started on low-dose SSRIs which seemed to work for a while before she regressed. Each time she started to feel depressed again she would be prescribed with an increased dosage. This pattern repeated until she was taking the maximum 'allowed' dosage, by this point she was delusional, paranoid and suffered terrifying, persecution-style hallucinations - perhaps not surprising seeing how much her brain chemistry must have been out of whack.

Sadly, I'm making these observations with hindsight, she took her own life in 2015. I wish I could share this article with my dad, if I knew it wouldn't break his heart. Both she and my father couldn't share with their children how gravely ill she was until it was too late. They both trusted their doctors implicitly. What they weren't prepared for was the fact that the theory that formed the basis of her treatment was, it seems, no more than guesswork supported only by publication bias, wishful thinking and greed.

Ironically, one of my first web development jobs, way back in 2000, was at a 'medical communications company' where I created an intranet site for GSK (IIRC) for use by their salespeople to shore up the claims of the effectiveness of Seroxat/Paxil and counter negative studies. So, I guess that makes me complicit in all this too.

Re: Calling for a new approach to depression

#36

Post by seibelj »

Years of strict exercise, diet, meditation, breathing techniques, various forms of therapy, and numerous self-help books did not cure my anxiety and depression. 2 weeks after starting a low-dose (10mg / day) of Lexapro made me feel better than I had in 10 years.

Don't be afraid of medication if other techniques fail. My life was ostensibly fine, with a good job, friends, and family. I had a chemical issue, which is solved to this day with Lexapro. I consider it a drug that saved my life.

Re: Calling for a new approach to depression

#37

Post by mabbo »

com2kid wrote: post #5

This explanation does not work for all types of depression. There are people who have wonderful lives, fulfilling jobs, happy families, who are still depressed. We need to be more careful in our language, the word depression has become overused, much like the drugs used to treat it.

That's how I've often described it before. Feeling like shit when your life is terrible is normal. Feeling like shit when your life is awesome is not.

The problem is that the pill often works regardless of why you feel like shit.

Re: Calling for a new approach to depression

#38

Post by thaw9876 »

> We need to feel we belong. We need to feel valued. We need to feel we’re good at something. We need to feel we have a secure future. And there is growing evidence that our culture isn’t meeting those psychological needs for many – perhaps most...

This (emphasized) is what I think is causing my increasing anxiety and depression. I look around at people, talking loudly, showing off, taking selfies, buying expensive crap they don't need from expensive shops, etc. I try to puzzle out why they're so happy, they all seem so superficial, and I can't understand why they don't feel miserable about the people less fortunate than them who live right next door, the people serving them, who are all struggling to just get by and by all measures increasingly failing. I really want to live in a more equal society that takes care of all citizens.

Re: Calling for a new approach to depression

#39

Post by wu-ikkyu »

mabbo wrote: post #37
com2kid wrote: post #5

This explanation does not work for all types of depression. There are people who have wonderful lives, fulfilling jobs, happy families, who are still depressed. We need to be more careful in our language, the word depression has become overused, much like the drugs used to treat it.

That's how I've often described it before. Feeling like shit when your life is terrible is normal. Feeling like shit when your life is awesome is not. The problem is that the pill often works regardless of why you feel like shit.

>Feeling like shit when your life is terrible is normal. Feeling like shit when your life is awesome is not.

Could it possibly be that our idea of an "awesome life" is mistaken?

Re: Calling for a new approach to depression

#40

Post by aalleavitch »

drumhead wrote: post #21

I'd like to think that medical professionals and academics in the mental health field have probably been thorough enough in their research to have looked at these finding over the years. I somehow doubt a person whose graduated in Social and Political Science and has no medical or scientific background might actually know what they're talking about in relation to this. Interesting thing about the author. He was a ris…

I feel like the more I learn about psychiatry, the less faith I have in psychiatrists. It is astounding what we don't know, and how wrong we've been in the past.

(B.S. in Biology and Psychology, studied neuroscience in school)

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