Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Vim: Seven habits of effective text editing (2000)

moolenaar.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 48 posts

Re: Vim: Seven habits of effective text editing (2000)

#31

Post by SamPutnam »

A couple of things to watch out for when you are using these three steps:

"I want to get the work done, I don't have time to look through the documentation to find some new command". If you think like this, you will get stuck in the stone age of computing. Some people use Notepad for everything, and then wonder why other people get their work done in half the time...

It's not directly related to vim, but... Some tool you use will always seem extraneous to someone further down the stack with more experience than you...

I remember at the beginning of my coding career asking a software engineer what IDE was the best and getting back the answer, "you don't need one, you can do everything in NotePad if you want."

(Suffice to say the impetus to go home and want to start coding from a blank NotePad file that night was dead on arrival.)

Now, if he had asked me why I was asking what IDE was best, I would probably have said "I want to create something as quickly as possible that helps me understand what code does," and then I would have been off to the races. Googling and learning along the way...

Re: Vim: Seven habits of effective text editing (2000)

#32

Post by computerex »

fao_ wrote: post #16
brucephillips wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are they? What do they do?

Anyone. I didn't learn to touch type and I'm about as fast as a touchtypist. Indeed, my typing speed went down when I started learning and because I didn't finish, hasn't really recovered since. 99% of programming is thinking and structuring though, so touch-typing isn't all that useful. https://phys.org/news/2016-02-ten-fingers-fast.html http://www.i-programmer.info/news/99-professional/9427-you-d... https://pdfs.se…

I looked at the PDF paper and the results and I don't agree with the conclusions being drawn. The main issue I see from cursory skim is that the 30 participants had a range of typing speeds from 34-79 WPM. I don't consider these individuals typing specialists or professionals based on the low WPM. Now if you consider professionals where they have a requirement of something like 90+ WPM, then I think you are going to see very few people who are not touch typists because it'd be very difficult or maybe even impossible to reach those WPM without touch typing.

I think a better conclusion to draw from the study is that touch typing isn't as useful for the lower end of the WPM spectrum. For example, if you are typing at 50 WPM, touch typing vs non-touch typing isn't going to make too much of a difference. The fastest typists in the world though are touch typists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9EXEpjSDEw

As for

> 99% of programming is thinking and structuring though, so touch-typing isn't all that useful.

I don't think typing speed is the biggest factor in productivity in programming, but I think you are downplaying it too much. Effective use of keyboard shortcuts, using vim, and having a high WPM typing speed has noticeably increased my productivity.

Re: Vim: Seven habits of effective text editing (2000)

#33

Post by Moru »

brucephillips wrote: post #11
dsego wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, hence auto-complete.

I can type. I use auto-complete all the time.

Most autocomplete functions just confuses my fingers and I end up either deleting and retyping, missing a character somewhere or I type faster than the slow autocomplete can fetch data... The linux prompt for autocomplete path and filenames are usefull though.

Re: Vim: Seven habits of effective text editing (2000)

#34

Post by metaphor »

gshakir wrote: post #2

If there was a eighth one, I would add learning to touch type. Groking VIM becomes easy when you can type fast.

Admittedly, I had look up what was meant by touch typing; taken literally, how else would typing be performed--osmosis?

Didn't realize that it meant typing without looking at the keyboard. Would have thought this was a given, but in hindsight, I suppose the prevelance of the touchscreen interface probably has something to do with my false assumption.

Re: Vim: Seven habits of effective text editing (2000)

#35

Post by brucephillips »

computerex wrote: post #32
fao_ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone. I didn't learn to touch type and I'm about as fast as a touchtypist. Indeed, my typing speed went down when I started learning and because I didn't finish, hasn't really recovered since. 99% of programming is thinking and structuring though, so touch-typing isn't all that useful. https://phys.org/news/2016-02-ten-fingers-fast.html http://www.i-programmer.info/news/99-professional/9427-you-d... https://pdfs.se…

I looked at the PDF paper and the results and I don't agree with the conclusions being drawn. The main issue I see from cursory skim is that the 30 participants had a range of typing speeds from 34-79 WPM. I don't consider these individuals typing specialists or professionals based on the low WPM. Now if you consider professionals where they have a requirement of something like 90+ WPM, then I think you are going to…

Not to mention that when assessing the productivity of information workers, you must also consider the vastly faster feedback loop of seeing what you're typing on the screen in real time, rather than typing in bursts then looking back up in the stream.

Re: Vim: Seven habits of effective text editing (2000)

#36

Post by fencepost »

swimfar wrote: post #12
brucephillips wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do there exist modern information workers who can't touch type?

I've worked with a number of engineers in Europe who couldn't type without looking at the keyboard. I assumed that it's not part of every school curriculum there. Or maybe they learned and then went back to hunt-and-peck afterwards.

Is there a lot of variability in international keyboard layouts? I'd expect the base 26 letters + digits to be pretty consistent, but in countries with a lot of accented or alternate characters I could see touch typing being less attractive as a student.

Re: Vim: Seven habits of effective text editing (2000)

#37

Post by okket »

aidos wrote: post #25
okket wrote: post #15

Previous discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15532457 (~2 months ago, 237 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4620065 (~5 years ago, 66 comments) All submissions: https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=moolenaar.net

Your first link is actually only a couple of months ago

Right, sorry, correcting it now.

Re: Vim: Seven habits of effective text editing (2000)

#39

Post by fao_ »

brucephillips wrote: post #20
fao_ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone. I didn't learn to touch type and I'm about as fast as a touchtypist. Indeed, my typing speed went down when I started learning and because I didn't finish, hasn't really recovered since. 99% of programming is thinking and structuring though, so touch-typing isn't all that useful. https://phys.org/news/2016-02-ten-fingers-fast.html http://www.i-programmer.info/news/99-professional/9427-you-d... https://pdfs.se…

Do you really spend 1% of your programming time typing? I find that hard to believe.

I wonder what it is with hacker news and the inability of people on it to understand simple dramatic exaggeration.

A more realistic estimate would be something like 40%. When I choose to, I write C or Erlang, so there is generally not much boilerplate needed in making things go. I would say 60% of my work is architectural stuff. How things should be designed, named, structured. What parts should plug into what, what functions and set of systems of POSIX to use, what makes most sense for future reading, etc.

Re: Vim: Seven habits of effective text editing (2000)

#40

Post by ValleyOfTheMtns »

e12e wrote: post #21
brucephillips wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do there exist modern information workers who can't touch type?

I'm very happy I attended an optional touch type class in high-school (on typewriters, actually). My recommendation for kids would probably be to learn to touch type, on a better layout (eg dvorak, colemak, workman). Either way, proper touch typing is more than typing fast, it's also about "sustainable typing": posture, strain, reducing rsi - as well as being free to copy (read text to type in, not having to look at…

One of the most practical and high-use skills I learned in high-school was touch typing.
Post reply on HN