How to Fix Facebook Before It Fixes Us • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Fix Facebook Before It Fixes Us

#51

Post by fzeroracer » Sun, Jan 07, 2018, 10:29 PM UTC

tzakrajs wrote: post #39

Quit using it. Let's go back to the way the internet used to be, y'know with instant messaging and a multitude of cultures that have their own ecosystems. Let's stop consolidating all of this information and wealth in the hands of people who don't give a shit about what makes us different (unless it sells an ad).

Go back to what, the AIM and Myspace domination? Before Facebook it was Myspace that was the juggernaut of the social media sphere.

As the number of people that can freely access the internet grows, you see them focusing around a single social media platform. That's because social media strongly benefits from centralization, it's easier to talk to family and friends if you don't have to manage fifty different accounts.

The idea that there was a 'multitude of cultures' before Facebook is just wrong. There was the main social media platforms and a bunch of niche offshoots. That's why this is such a tricky problem to fix because even if Facebook vanished tomorrow, eventually there would be another platform which absolutely everyone would circle around.

Re: How to Fix Facebook Before It Fixes Us

#52

Post by jessaustin » Sun, Jan 07, 2018, 10:29 PM UTC

kleer001 wrote: post #47

tankenmate wrote: post #43

This quote sums up, for the most part, how the system is gamed; "People tend to react more to inputs that land low on the brainstem". Maybe parents and schools should teach kids more about how not to respond in such a fashion.

I get the impression that well meaning teachers, parents, guardians, friends, strangers, and everyone else HAS been trying very hard for a very long time. Socrates, Buddha, Jesus, Mohammad, you think they were trying their darndest? The problem is that even if we give ourselves well meaning instructions that will benefit ourselves in the medium to long term, invariably we will come to betray ourselves. Personally I t…

In my experience teenagers are often better at ignoring "lower brainstem" attacks than their "teachers, parents, guardians," etc. Much like a DOS attack, ignoring this shit early and often is the dominant success strategy.

Re: How to Fix Facebook Before It Fixes Us

#53

Post by darkerside » Sun, Jan 07, 2018, 10:31 PM UTC

eadmund wrote: post #49

> When citizens of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union in June 2016, most observers were stunned. The polls had predicted a victory for the “Remain” campaign. And common sense made it hard to believe that Britons would do something so obviously contrary to their self-interest. Y'know, I suspect that Leave voters thought leaving was in their self-interest — or at the very least that voting 'Leave' sen…

Most people felt positive about the impact of Internet advertising on political campaigning when the themes of the message were hope and change. It has become clear that those themes are easily trumped by messages of fear and divisiveness. I think it's a fair question, now that we've seen where we're likely headed, to question anew whether we need to adjust course.

Re: How to Fix Facebook Before It Fixes Us

#54

Post by jessaustin » Sun, Jan 07, 2018, 10:32 PM UTC

spiraldancing wrote: post #50

Just curious ... show of hands, how many people here have never been on Facebook?

I created an account once, in "incognito" mode, but I only sent one message and never posted anything... It turned out that someone who couldn't be emailed or telephoned because he "was only on Facebook" also didn't respond on Facebook. Shocking!

Re: How to Fix Facebook Before It Fixes Us

#55

Post by adrianratnapala » Sun, Jan 07, 2018, 10:33 PM UTC

DFHippie wrote: post #16

grinsekatze wrote: post #7

“Fixing yourself” automatically fixes the “Facebook problem”. Because then, Facebook will be completely irrelevant to you.

The question isn't whether Facebook is relevant to you. It's whether it's relevant to 300 million other people. If a problem as 300 million causes, you still have a problem if you cut that down to 299,999,999.

Ok, I get it that no man is an island and all. But if your happiness is so dependent on other people that even change your life this much, then you already have a deeper problem that is elses fault.

(I don't mean that everyone should get off Facebook. But I do mean it for the crowd that somehow they hate facebook but yet think they are dependent on it.)

Re: How to Fix Facebook Before It Fixes Us

#56

Post by JoshMnem » Sun, Jan 07, 2018, 10:34 PM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #51

tzakrajs wrote: post #39

Quit using it. Let's go back to the way the internet used to be, y'know with instant messaging and a multitude of cultures that have their own ecosystems. Let's stop consolidating all of this information and wealth in the hands of people who don't give a shit about what makes us different (unless it sells an ad).

Go back to what, the AIM and Myspace domination? Before Facebook it was Myspace that was the juggernaut of the social media sphere. As the number of people that can freely access the internet grows, you see them focusing around a single social media platform. That's because social media strongly benefits from centralization, it's easier to talk to family and friends if you don't have to manage fifty different account…

Not AIM and MySpace, but things like XMPP, where you could use one chat client and connect to your own Jabber server, Twitter, and Google chat.

One solution is open, decentralized protocols.

The article addresses that a little bit here:

> ...the internet platforms were able to pursue business strategies that would not have been allowed in prior decades. No one stopped them from using free products to centralize the internet and then replace its core functions.

Re: How to Fix Facebook Before It Fixes Us

#57

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 07, 2018, 10:35 PM UTC

eadmund wrote: post #49

> When citizens of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union in June 2016, most observers were stunned. The polls had predicted a victory for the “Remain” campaign. And common sense made it hard to believe that Britons would do something so obviously contrary to their self-interest. Y'know, I suspect that Leave voters thought leaving was in their self-interest — or at the very least that voting 'Leave' sen…

[deleted]

Re: How to Fix Facebook Before It Fixes Us

#58

Post by jessaustin » Sun, Jan 07, 2018, 10:36 PM UTC

pipio21 wrote: post #29

It is obvious for reading just a few lines of this article that the author is extremely biased in support of Clinton and Democrats and he only cares about media manipulation when he loses. If media manipulation in his side it doesn't matter. I am not American and from my point of view Democrats totally own media attention in the US. They own the artists and famous people space, they own most important TVs and newspap…

I wish we Americans were sensible enough to implement the suggestions you make here. I'm not optimistic about that, however.

Re: How to Fix Facebook Before It Fixes Us

#59

Post by tarkin2 » Sun, Jan 07, 2018, 10:42 PM UTC

Facebook's monopoly is a problem because, increasingly, Facebook's dopamine-driven tools replaces traditional civic society. They're easier. They're superficially more pleasing. They're often addictive. And any company in control of the sphere in which people congregate and interact then controls /how/ we congregate and interact. And if you control how we congregate and interact then you control how we exert control on those who we chose to rule us. As soon as you change that quality, quantity and ability you change the whole basis of society. And therefore how that society presses its current rulers and chooses its future rulers. And this is happening and has happened. And it may not be for the best.

Re: How to Fix Facebook Before It Fixes Us

#60

Post by fzeroracer » Sun, Jan 07, 2018, 10:42 PM UTC

JoshMnem wrote: post #56

fzeroracer wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go back to what, the AIM and Myspace domination? Before Facebook it was Myspace that was the juggernaut of the social media sphere. As the number of people that can freely access the internet grows, you see them focusing around a single social media platform. That's because social media strongly benefits from centralization, it's easier to talk to family and friends if you don't have to manage fifty different account…

Not AIM and MySpace, but things like XMPP, where you could use one chat client and connect to your own Jabber server, Twitter, and Google chat. One solution is open, decentralized protocols. The article addresses that a little bit here: > ...the internet platforms were able to pursue business strategies that would not have been allowed in prior decades. No one stopped them from using free products to centralize the i…

It's a solution to a separate problem. You need to make something easy to use for the masses, you need to make it safe from bad actors and you need to actually advertise it.

It's easy to talk about open and decentralized protocols but social media is a popularity contest, not one based off the best or most free platform. As the article mentions nothing was and nothing is stopping them from capitalizing on open and free products, followed by gutting and replacing them.