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Regarding the Em Dash

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Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#191

Post by cryptonector »

function_seven wrote: post #99
cryptonector wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. "I live in the U.S. I am happy." requires a bit more cognitive work to parse if spaces after sentence-ending periods are not wider. EDIT: For completeness, here is that same text with an extra space: "I live in the U.S. I am happy." -- see how much easier that is to read? Sure, it's not that big a deal, but it's definitely kind to the reader.

Regarding your edit, it appears exactly the same :(. The browser collapses whitespace. I'm not sure if HN's comment system will allow you to double-space after a period, other than in a block: I live in the U.S. I am happy. I live in the U.S. I am happy.

Ay, thanks.

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#192

Post by cryptonector »

Symbiote wrote: post #117
cryptonector wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. "I live in the U.S. I am happy." requires a bit more cognitive work to parse if spaces after sentence-ending periods are not wider. EDIT: For completeness, here is that same text with an extra space: "I live in the U.S. I am happy." -- see how much easier that is to read? Sure, it's not that big a deal, but it's definitely kind to the reader.

British: I don't live in the US. I am happy. Full stops aren't generally used in abbreviations here, Mx Cryptonector. Though there's a more recent trend to write "Nato" rather than NATO, which annoys me for the inconsistency that arises. Plenty of people pronounce VAT as one word, or PAYE, but these are usually left in capitals.

As Churchill said, we're two cultures separated by a common language.

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#193

Post by cryptonector »

Symbiote wrote: post #119
cryptonector wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like sticking to ASCII when I stick to English. (Of course, when I write in other languages, I use UTF-8.)

That doesn't work outside America, where accents are often retained (café, façade, naïve) and £ or € is often needed.

I'm OK with that. I'm in the U.S., and I comprehend my non-American English-speaking colleagues, but I don't try to be like them. The same should go the other way around. We're NOT going to standardize on one of the flavors of English -- variety is good.

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#194

Post by cryptonector »

anjbe wrote: post #107
cryptonector wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like sticking to ASCII when I stick to English. (Of course, when I write in other languages, I use UTF-8.)

Here in New Mexico ñ is very common in place names. And I’ve known people with accented names who, though they don’t insist on it, appreciate (sometimes visibly brightening) when their names are spelled accurately.

My own name has an accent. I am always surprised when someone gets that right, but I don't insist on it.

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#195

Post by cryptonector »

krsdcbl wrote: post #167
cryptonector wrote: post #43

Yes! I use em dashes quite often. I tire of commas and parenthesis. I do prefer two short dashes together, because I enjoy ASCII. I also use short dashes as parenthesis sometimes, -like this-, but this doesn't always work well as some UIs use that for strikethrough. EDIT: Do please put whitespace around em dashes.

To your edit: i wouldn't recommend, the EM dash should generally be used without surrounding spaces. It is dimensioned to set a proper pause in the text and will rip holes in your text body if surrounded by so much additional white space. You also wouldn't put a space before a period . (Use an EN dash with spaces, if you must)

http://apvschicago.com/2011/05/em-dashes-and-ellipses-closed...

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#196

Post by abritinthebay »

cryptonector wrote: post #91
abritinthebay wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may not be rules but there are conventions. These conventions are rarely very strict but they do help communicate your ideas. Understanding them and understanding the impact of not using them is an important set of knowledge if you want to be clear and well understood in your writing. It is similar to good typography in that it isn't required but that it will often make the reader enjoy or understand the work m…

You're saying only the qualified are allowed to break conventions you were taught. You are free to follow that; I am free to not.

Nothing about allowed there. It’s about communication & understanding.

You are free to break whatever convention you like. It will just effect your communication clarity.

Understanding that (and how and why too) will help you be more effective.

It’s no different to saying “you can program it that way if you want but understanding the conventions & methods other people use may help you have more readable and efficient code”.

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#197

Post by the_af »

Philip K Dick, one of my favorite authors, used the em dash a great deal. In fact, I think I first noticed it in his stories. Without having been taught how to use o read it, I immediately understood PKD's intent -- and how the dash wasn't exactly necessary for anything but flavor. A mimic of other punctuation marks is an apt description!

I've been abusing the em dash since.

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#198

Post by alister »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #112
seandougall wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While we're on this subject, wide spacing between sentence-ending periods and the next sentence is the Right Way (tm). This convention started with typewriters, and typesetters (e.g. my parents) will tell you that it is only considered correct in monospace fonts. This is also why HTML takes the liberty of reducing whitespace down to a single space character unless you go out of your way to use an  .

> typesetters (e.g. my parents) will tell you that it is only considered correct in monospace fonts People like to say that but it's never been explained to my satisfaction. Spaces are twice as wide in a monospace font. Why would you use more spaces when and only when you have a longer space?

> Why would you use more spaces when and only when you have a longer space?

I've also wondered this. Referring to this mock-up[1], I have the same monospace text with single vs double spaces after sentences, and proportional font with single vs double. The usual argument is that #2 is better than #1 (for mono), but #3 is better than #4 (for proportional). It feels like an inconsistency in the preference, and (as you pointed out) the reasoning doesn't make sense.

[1] https://imgur.com/a/nozuw

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#199

Post by lwhi »

jfk13 wrote: post #133
Symbiote wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The space is conventional in Britain. Without the space looks strange to me. (Android users — try long pressing the - key in the punctuation menu.)

In my opinion — and let's face it, much of this is just a matter of opinion! — a normal space is too much. Try thin space (U+2009) for a more subtle effect. (The exact result may depend on your font, however.)

I agree; it is down to opinion. I'd like to make use of the thin-space — but it doesn't make much difference in the typeface I'm using to write this reply.

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#200

Post by WovenTales »

I love dashes. I do tend to avoid ems for parenthetical remarks – for those, I'll use spaced ens – but I do definitely use the longer for interjections and (roughly) semicolons, as the article describes. Where I break from convention is that, if they're marking an interjection or other interruption, I will put a space in on a single side of the dash— like so —to better demarcate the logical flow. Then again, I also put a thin space before exclamation points, etc. if I can (though unlike French, nothing if I just have full spaces), so I have other reasons to dismiss the complaints about style.
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