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The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

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Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#81
From one of the comments (author, Nathan Spears):

> People with Asperger’s can navigate social situations remarkably well after they learn “the rules” of social interaction.

That's my experience. I too, was socially awkward kid who taught himself basic programming by reading computer manuals around the age of 10. I constantly got picked on though out elementary and middle school. In high school it got a little better because I started to imitate social behavior and personal style that I picked up in other (cooler) people, mainly as a survival strategy. Spend more than 5 minutes talking to me though, and you'd be looking for a way to mosey out of the conversation.

I went into software development where I felt that I'd truly found my breed. Then I started a software (product) company where suddenly I had to attract customers and pitch them my product in demos.

I will say this: forcing myself to learn sales was monumental both professionally and socially. I am now pretty smooth in nearly any social interaction and even when things don't go perfectly, I keep a general "fuck it" attitude in my back pocket (which is quite handy for avoiding that paralyzing over-analysis following a misstep).

The point is this: if you think you're somewhere on the subclinical spectrum, don't just give yourself that label and wait for the world to come around to you, or avoid doing the things that you don't think you're suited for. Do things that make you uncomfortable. Grow and improve on every front. As an aspie, you're probably pretty damned good at actively learning the traits that seem to come naturally for other people.

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#82

From one of the comments (author, Nathan Spears): > People with Asperger’s can navigate social situations remarkably well after they learn “the rules” of social interaction. That's my experience. I too, was socially awkward kid who taught himself basic programming by reading computer manuals around the age of 10. I constantly got picked on though out elementary and middle school. In high school it got a little better…

I took a quick look at the ASQ test mentioned in the article [1]. A lot of the things in there, I would have answered "definitely agree" when I was a teenager.

Sometime in college, I forced myself to socialize, and did everything I could to learn what I needed to fit in. For example, I learned from the internet to dress and care for myself so I didn't look like a 17 year basement nerd, and a bunch of other things I guess most people just pick up naturally by being around other people in high school.

Today, edging towards my 30s, looking at the questions on that test makes me feel surprised at how "well adjusted" I've become compared to how I was at 15 years old.

[1] https://psychology-tools.com/autism-spectrum-quotient/

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#83
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Acknowledging that women are 'vulnerable or marginalised' shouldn't remove their individuality, you can easily have both, but that's beside my point here) I don't think you can easily have both, and this problem underlies much contemporary political conflict. At its core is a pervasive hypocrisy: people readily engage in broad, often negative, stereotyping about groups they oppose, or are not a member of, while agg…

Excellent summary of the core issue. Though I think there should be room for some nature vs. nurture debate. Exclusively attributing this behaviour to our genes seems a bit like the "lazy excuse" to me. I don't see why properly educating ourselves could not lead to a population with improved inter-group empathy (or both, i.e., trigger that evolution at the generic level, too). But yes, maybe changing our educational…

It's equally as lazy to exclusively attribute behavior to social construct. Yet this is now the status quo: blank slate theory, where any public figure would be excoriated for suggesting that genes may be a factor in the difference in representation anywhere.

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#84
post #8

This article is going to rub lots of people the wrong way, I suspect, but it's level headed, well reasoned and well written. Although I ultimately disagree with some of the conclusions drawn at the end, (particularly: > Because contemporary moral codes delineate women as vulnerable or marginalised, we stop seeing them as individuals with unique talents and idiosyncrasies, but as representatives of a victimised class.…

> Acknowledging that women are 'vulnerable or marginalised' shouldn't remove their individuality, you can easily have both, but that's beside my point here) I don't think you can easily have both, and this problem underlies much contemporary political conflict. At its core is a pervasive hypocrisy: people readily engage in broad, often negative, stereotyping about groups they oppose, or are not a member of, while agg…

"people readily engage in broad, often negative, stereotyping about groups they oppose"

Ahh...DYSWYDT?

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#85
post #21

Majority of people in tech are not autistic stereotype. The actually autistic were definitely not among the best I have worked with.

Yeah I also observed that most people in tech seem to be kind of "statistically normal". However seeing myself more on the spectrum side and also being perceived as that, I noticed workplaces preferring me and similar people to rather work alone. It matches very much the traditional stereotype of putting the programmers in the cellar, not sure if that makes the workplaces more sociable - probably not. There's in my o…

Do you see that working more alone as a bad thing? One of my gripes with scrum and such is that such a thing is not possible.

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't lose empathy, but I lose the ability to understand or speak English. If someone interrupts me when I am in deep in the groove I can tell someone is talking to me, but I can't understand what they are saying and I can't reply. It takes me around 5 to 10 seconds to context switch back into English. Amusingly my wife assumes that I am deliberately ignoring her when she interrupts me and storms off in a huff half…

> my wife assumes that I am deliberately ignoring her when she interrupts me and storms off in a huff half the time If you are interested in tools to reduce this sort of thing, my wife and I developed protocols that help. I've rot13'd them in case you are the type of person who hates unsolicited advice and would prefer to skip it: - Jura bar bs hf vf qevivat n pne (NXN 2-gba-qrngu-znpuvar) naq jr ner pbairefvat, gur…

The car “pause” keyword rings true to me. When my SO is in the car and I’m driving, if I say “wait” they wait. My mother was in riding along with me the other day and did not wait and I instinctively snapped “shut up” not even realizing what I was saying as I swerved to avoid a car that turned out in front of me. She did not appreciate that.

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#87
post #8

This article is going to rub lots of people the wrong way, I suspect, but it's level headed, well reasoned and well written. Although I ultimately disagree with some of the conclusions drawn at the end, (particularly: > Because contemporary moral codes delineate women as vulnerable or marginalised, we stop seeing them as individuals with unique talents and idiosyncrasies, but as representatives of a victimised class.…

You wrote: -- Although I ultimately disagree with some of the conclusions drawn at the end, (particularly: "Because contemporary moral codes delineate women as vulnerable or marginalised, we stop seeing them as individuals with unique talents and idiosyncrasies, but as representatives of a victimised class." Acknowledging that women are 'vulnerable or marginalised' shouldn't remove their individuality, you can easily…

> How can you disagree with it?

Assuming this isn't a rethorical question, it seems straight forward to disagree with the "because" part. Just because the author suggests something doesn't make it so. Presumably, since most people use themselves as reference, if something doesn't apply to yourself you might disagree with the explanation given and conclude that there are other factor involved i.e. that the problem is something else.

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#88

I always felt that the fact that the tech industry is so welcome to techies and people with "aspie"-type personalities, indicates that in fact we as an industry have more empathy than other industries (or social groups) that shun these types of people (myself included) for what I believe are very superficial reasons. So, I think the title of the article is extremely biased and draws the wrong conclusions from the wri…

I'll have to disagree with your conclusion. If a group is composed mostly of members of a shunned social group, do they have more empathy than others just because they are friendlier to members of that specific shunned social group? I am immensely grateful for the nerd-friendliness of the tech industry, as I spent my teen years being mocked for being a nerd. But if the tech industry has a higher-than-average number o…

Before ascribing a mere "nerd-friendliness" to the tech industry, don't ever forget that the tech industry exists because of the nerds and without nerds there would be no tech industry. Everybody else involved in tech is just there as a byproduct of the nerds.

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#89
post #47
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have extensively studied the statistics about neoteny (=compassion gap) in USA vs Europe and they are very close to each other. If you’re talking about the position of women in the Taliban culture, this is a very interesting talk, despite the title: https://youtu.be/5eqYEVYZgdo

I wasn't talking about compassion (which may differ in shape but not volume) or Taliban culture (that I know little about, nor am particularly interested in).

Sounds like a way of conveniently ignoring my point. I’m aware it’s a caveat to the narrative you explain. That’s why it’s not reasonable to dodge the caveat on the grounds that you see a difference between “compassion” and “empathy” that is so massive that it would invalidate my comment, and that no culture from Europe to Taliban were cultures you were talking about.

So... what countries were you thinking of, when saying “Not all countries have affirmative action laws”, given my comment has covered cultures from Western to Taliban?

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#90
Using a "car company" Like tesla as an example of the tech industry's misogamy is just fracking stupid - does the Atlantic even have an "industrial correspondent"

Teslas a car company and the sexism in those sort of blue collar traditional company's is way more prevalent

To use a slightly more tech example in telecos when was the last time you saw a female lineman (engineer in UK terms)

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