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Why Am I So Lazy?

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Re: Why Am I So Lazy?

#81

Post by contingencies »

eludwig wrote: post #78
bambax wrote: post #52

> I see this shit every day in other parents: “She hates to read!” “He’s lazy!” “She’s bad at math!” You are imprisoning your kid with your words, fuckers! That's spot on. It's really upsetting to hear people say that about children, especially people with authority (parents, grandparents). DON'T DO THAT! Or, if you have to do that (!?!) at least be positive. Don't tell a kid she's bad at math, tell her she's good at…

Yes, not screwing up your children is a an excellent goal for a parent, if not a moral imperative. But the truth is that parenting is a huge messy business that never goes according to plan. You will screw up your kids in subtle ways, even if you avoid the major landmines. This is not due to any failing beyond being a human being that was also raised by fallible parents. The other parents on HN will appreciate this:…

Parenting is a huge messy business that never goes according to plan

Totally, and that goes for systems as well as children.

Re: Why Am I So Lazy?

#82

Post by rwnspace »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #75
taneq wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying ADHD doesn't exist or that it's not a genuine disorder. I'm saying that there's a huge no-mans-land between "you're fine" and "woah yeah you clearly have ADHD and we should fix this."

Indeed there is, and the way psychiatry approaches it in terms of diagnosis isn't really good, either. There is a long but very insightful article on this topic that was recently featured on HN, by Scott Alexander, who's a practicing psychiatrist: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mor... Key quote for this topic: > But “ability to concentrate” is a normally distributed trait, like IQ. We draw a…

I would argue that there is a discrete population with the 'disease' of ADHD, in the same way that doorways are a discrete difficulty for people who are very tall. One must either move into a house with very tall doorways, or learn to stoop. In any case, you'll probably often bang your head. This analogises to ADHD because failure to meet social and societal expectations often has real (and occasionally very painful) consequences.

'Attention' is normally distributed, but the environments that smoothly manage different degrees of attention are not.

Re: Why Am I So Lazy?

#83

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #75
taneq wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying ADHD doesn't exist or that it's not a genuine disorder. I'm saying that there's a huge no-mans-land between "you're fine" and "woah yeah you clearly have ADHD and we should fix this."

Indeed there is, and the way psychiatry approaches it in terms of diagnosis isn't really good, either. There is a long but very insightful article on this topic that was recently featured on HN, by Scott Alexander, who's a practicing psychiatrist: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mor... Key quote for this topic: > But “ability to concentrate” is a normally distributed trait, like IQ. We draw a…

Do you think that in fifty, maybe one-hundred, years people will look back at our present day understand of psychiatry and shake their heads.

Re: Why Am I So Lazy?

#84

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

rwnspace wrote: post #82
TeMPOraL wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed there is, and the way psychiatry approaches it in terms of diagnosis isn't really good, either. There is a long but very insightful article on this topic that was recently featured on HN, by Scott Alexander, who's a practicing psychiatrist: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mor... Key quote for this topic: > But “ability to concentrate” is a normally distributed trait, like IQ. We draw a…

I would argue that there is a discrete population with the 'disease' of ADHD, in the same way that doorways are a discrete difficulty for people who are very tall. One must either move into a house with very tall doorways, or learn to stoop. In any case, you'll probably often bang your head. This analogises to ADHD because failure to meet social and societal expectations often has real (and occasionally very painful)…

> 'Attention' is normally distributed, but the environments that smoothly manage different degrees of attention are not.

Does that mean we should be prescribing amphetamine to those who don't function well in the available environments?

Re: Why Am I So Lazy?

#85

Post by pbhjpbhj »

bambax wrote: post #52

> I see this shit every day in other parents: “She hates to read!” “He’s lazy!” “She’s bad at math!” You are imprisoning your kid with your words, fuckers! That's spot on. It's really upsetting to hear people say that about children, especially people with authority (parents, grandparents). DON'T DO THAT! Or, if you have to do that (!?!) at least be positive. Don't tell a kid she's bad at math, tell her she's good at…

In think this has been shown to get worse results than praising effort.

I call my kids out for being lazy when they're being lazy.

Examples from this morning "I don't know what the second rucksack is": meaning "I can't be bothered getting it out the rucksack, you do it for me", my answer "You just want someone else to do it, stop being lazy and get it yourself". Also "I can't do it [take off my boots]": meaning "I don't want to bother, and my hands will get dirty", my answer "why should someone else get their hands dirty, just because you can't be bothered to pull" (then I demonstrated what to do, then mimicked his pretending he couldn't do it in order to demonstrate I knew what he was up to). It's not for nothing my kids get me Darth Vader merchandise!

Re: Why Am I So Lazy?

#86

Post by ghostcluster »

bambax wrote: post #52

> I see this shit every day in other parents: “She hates to read!” “He’s lazy!” “She’s bad at math!” You are imprisoning your kid with your words, fuckers! That's spot on. It's really upsetting to hear people say that about children, especially people with authority (parents, grandparents). DON'T DO THAT! Or, if you have to do that (!?!) at least be positive. Don't tell a kid she's bad at math, tell her she's good at…

This idea, while tempting to lend weight to on the surface, is highly overblown. Stereotype Threat doesn't hold up to repeated testing.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/rabble-rouser/201512/is...

And what's more, this "grit" trait, the propensity to follow through and get stuff done, appears to be a set of inherited traits as well.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-limits-of...

Re: Why Am I So Lazy?

#87

Post by TeMPOraL »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #83
TeMPOraL wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed there is, and the way psychiatry approaches it in terms of diagnosis isn't really good, either. There is a long but very insightful article on this topic that was recently featured on HN, by Scott Alexander, who's a practicing psychiatrist: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mor... Key quote for this topic: > But “ability to concentrate” is a normally distributed trait, like IQ. We draw a…

Do you think that in fifty, maybe one-hundred, years people will look back at our present day understand of psychiatry and shake their heads.

Maybe. But it seems to me that the problems in psychiatry (and many other disciplines) have less to do with understanding, and more to do with incentives within the system. Nonsense reigns between populist regulators, greedy companies and individuals just trying to cover their asses while they go through their day.

Re: Why Am I So Lazy?

#88

Post by ghostcluster »

Morizero wrote: post #71
lawn wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you should ever say that someone is naturally good, "a natural" or anything like that. Instead kids should be praised for effort, for trying and having a growth mindset. If we only comment on how inherently good they are they might get lazy as whenever they get bad grades excuses like "I wasn't trying" works. It doesn't matter if the parents continue being surprised of the bad grades, the answer can als…

The name for this topic is fixed vs growth mindset: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindset#Fixed_and_growth You'll see that and related phrases as buzzwords sometimes.

> This article may lend undue weight to certain ideas, incidents, or controversies.

Psychologists can't replicate Carol Dweck's 'Growth Mindset' claims: https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/what-is-your-mindset

> The findings of Dweck’s key study have never been replicated in a published paper, which is noteworthy in so high-profile a work. One scientist told BuzzFeed News that his attempt to reproduce the findings has so far failed. An investigation found several small but revealing errors in the study that may require a correction.

It is likely another hypothesized model from the social psychology field that doesn't actually exist, in the same category as Stereotype Threat and Power Posing.

Re: Why Am I So Lazy?

#89

Post by hacker_9 »

Morizero wrote: post #71
lawn wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you should ever say that someone is naturally good, "a natural" or anything like that. Instead kids should be praised for effort, for trying and having a growth mindset. If we only comment on how inherently good they are they might get lazy as whenever they get bad grades excuses like "I wasn't trying" works. It doesn't matter if the parents continue being surprised of the bad grades, the answer can als…

The name for this topic is fixed vs growth mindset: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindset#Fixed_and_growth You'll see that and related phrases as buzzwords sometimes.

I don't know why these terms are thrown out like they're useless, as they pretty much explain most people's way of thinking. If you give up you have a fixed mindset, where you simply think you weren't born to be good enough to know something. Whereas a growth mindset will try to break down the problem into smaller chunks and try to figure them out first, and grow their knowledge.

It often just takes mentioning these concepts to someone for them to have an epiphany and get on the growth mind track.

Re: Why Am I So Lazy?

#90

Post by pkalinowski »

Being lazy is natural and it is what pushes humanity forward. We don't want to do things, so we try to work on it less in the future - automating things, improving efficiency etc.

Being "lazy" about some things is good for you. Do not focus much on stuff which is not very important for you personally.

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