Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#281

Post by forapurpose » Sat, Jan 06, 2018, 9:04 AM UTC

krrrh wrote: post #134

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Who voted for Kalanick? What gave him the right? >You could say people voted with their wallets. Money should never overwhelm the will of the people. I say this even though I hated the way taxis used to work, with the artificial limitation, and I love a chance to take a much more convenient app based ride, I really despise how they got away with violating at least any standard of reasonable behavior, but also they…

Everything you say is true, but the vested rent-seeking interests of the medallion holders that for years caused untold costs to people who needed transportation, and to the economy as a whole, was also despicable. Money was already overwhelming the will of everyone who couldn’t get a cab, who had to buy a car they didn’t want to own, and who had to put up with a higher percentage of drunk drivers. Just because it wa…

> untold costs

This really turns taxi service into some great horror. Uber didn't cure cancer or even invent the Internet (nor is it cheaper than cabs in cities I've been in); they just made a marginal improvement in one form of transportation, partly by using massive wealth to take on losses and by imposing externalities on others: The cost of cars on the drivers, safety on the passengers, traffic on the rest of the city (a big reason for medallions, afaik, was to avoid the traffic jams that Uber creates in cities). Cabs worked fine for many years, and still do.

> It’s like the quote from the Chronicles of Riddick, “sometimes the only way to stop evil is not with good. You must confront it with another kind of evil”.

Evil? Cabs are evil? If we're getting our philosophy from the Chronicles of Riddick, it suddenly all makes sense. The better sources of philosophy would disagree.

So should anyone who wants be able to break laws and abuse people? If the only justification you need is that cab service isn't great, what good are laws?

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#282

Post by crdoconnor » Sat, Jan 06, 2018, 2:19 PM UTC

rtx wrote: post #227

crdoconnor wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Goldman Sachs took an Uber stake around the time it dumped it's medallions. So the identity of the rent seekers at the top hasn't even changed. But you use an app now... so, yay? I think anybody who takes a rent seekers' side over even the most despicable politician doesn't deserve to live in a Democracy.

As a rent seeker, democracy protects me.

No, as a rent seeker donations to politicians and think tanks protect you. More democracy puts your rents at risk.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

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Post by xtracto » Sat, Jan 06, 2018, 3:53 PM UTC

craigching wrote: post #94

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #34

Happy for him. I can only imagine how much being ousted from a company he created and raised to its current level must have hurt. I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. We can debate about Uber's business practices until the cows come home, but this is undeniable.…

> I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. How about we improve public transport? I know it’s unpopular to propose “socialist” ideas, but public transport works elsewhere in the world, why does it have to be so horrible here? Why does someone have to profit for somet…

There was a company in Mexico that tried to do that ( https://angel.co/caravana ). Unfortunately, the government still won't let it be.

If You think Taxi's are a mafia, the public transport (bus) system in Mexico is ten times as dirty and corrupt. It is a real shame.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#284

Post by xtracto » Sat, Jan 06, 2018, 3:56 PM UTC

misun78 wrote: post #77

heymijo wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not entirely true. Lyft paved the way for UberX.

Just because Lyft entered some cities before Uber did does not mean they eventually paved the path for legalization. Most of the battles that occurred once local governments realized the magnitude of ridesharing were led by Uber.

Yes! there was an a16z podcast which interviewed someone from Lyft. They commented that they were very conservative in their decisions, leaving other companies to push the legalization issues.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#285

Post by volgo » Sat, Jan 06, 2018, 10:39 PM UTC

santoriv wrote: post #95

volgo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. People sit comfortably in their morals while enjoy the huge benefits brought about by Uber. Things are comfortable because people like Travis were willing to take the blame on the wrong side of history and forge ahead anyways. We all sit comfortably in the Bay Area because our ancestors murdered and stole lands from Native Americans. They also build an entire ecosystem that gained wealth from exploiting…

Wait what? Murdering people and stealing land turned out great for the murderer's ancestors so it's all ok? Not from the point of view of those who were murdered. Using that logic - if space aliens came and murdered all the technologically inferior humans and took Earth for themselves, it would be all ok. After all, they are building a more technologically advanced and superior society on Earth for their children.

I didn't say it's ok, that was exactly the opposite of my point.

I'm saying they did something NOT OK, and their children get to enjoy all the fruits of their immorality without any of the blames.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#286

Post by volgo » Sat, Jan 06, 2018, 10:40 PM UTC

forapurpose wrote: post #87

volgo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. People sit comfortably in their morals while enjoy the huge benefits brought about by Uber. Things are comfortable because people like Travis were willing to take the blame on the wrong side of history and forge ahead anyways. We all sit comfortably in the Bay Area because our ancestors murdered and stole lands from Native Americans. They also build an entire ecosystem that gained wealth from exploiting…

I've heard people justify war crimes this craven way, saying the survival of their nation was at stake, and those people usually and rightfully go to jail. I've never heard fraudulent business practices that someone cashed in on justified this way.

> those people usually and rightfully go to jail

Exactly my point. They got punished for it, but their children lived to enjoy the fruits of their labor, without any blame or punishment.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#287

Post by volgo » Sat, Jan 06, 2018, 10:41 PM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #104

volgo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. People sit comfortably in their morals while enjoy the huge benefits brought about by Uber. Things are comfortable because people like Travis were willing to take the blame on the wrong side of history and forge ahead anyways. We all sit comfortably in the Bay Area because our ancestors murdered and stole lands from Native Americans. They also build an entire ecosystem that gained wealth from exploiting…

>"Things are comfortable because people like Travis were willing to take the blame on the wrong side of history and forge ahead anyways." Wait what? What did he take the blame for exactly? Were the sexist comment making, the berating of his own Uber driver, or Greyball things that were necessary for ride sharing to become successful? I think most people are quite capable of being able to separate ride sharing the tec…

> Or has ancestors that killed native Americans

It doesn't matter if your ancestors were Americans. The prosperity and safety of the Bay Area, which you enjoy, was made possible by people who murdered and stole land. You enjoy that privilege everyday without taking any of the blame.

The fact that you're outraged speaks to your privilege because you've no understanding of what a bloody mess history is, and the amount of indencency it took to get the U.S. to the prosperous nation it is today.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

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Post by T2_t2 » Sun, Jan 07, 2018, 7:13 AM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #262

TallGuyShort wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering actual firearm violence has actually shrunk a lot in recent decades, I feel you have just a hint of bias based on a political agenda there.

It's shrunk a lot relative to the US peak [1]. Relative to other western powers it's still in a league of its own [2]. I think your comment is more indicative of a political agenda than mine. And for the record, if the United States as a society decides that gun ownership is important enough to let the mass shootings continue that's OK with me. What bugs me more is the perennial argument that gun control wouldn't sol…

There is no USA (only Zuul). The USA is a country of states each with various characters, economic sizes and problems (Miami and Minneapolis are vastly different environments).

No one holds Germany responsible for EU partner Croatia's outcomes, yet USA wide outcomes are - despite massive local variations. In a lot of areas of US policy (excluding defence) local budgets will dictate results much more than federal ones.

That's the real challenge for the USA, how to cope with inequality that is as much a factor of geography as politics.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#289

Post by T2_t2 » Sun, Jan 07, 2018, 7:15 AM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #234

AlexandrB wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the last 50 years American exceptionalism has morphed from: "We are the greatest country on earth, unique in our ability to achieve." to "We are the most special snowflake country in the world, unique in our inability to improve healthcare, public infrastructure, or reduce deaths by firearms." It's really quite sad, I hope you guys get our of your rut soon.

As someone who has grown up in the South, and who has visited San Francisco, Philadelphia, DC, NYC, Boston and other places, I agree public transport is amazing, and I wish cities in the South could pull it off. I also recognize it's incredibly difficult, and expensive, to do so. And even if we had the money and ability to build rail along freeway lines, and build stops at popular social and residential hubs, how do…

Isn't part of the problem that the appeal of the south is different to the north? SF and NYC are very different climates to New Orleans, with very different amounts of living space per person. You can either have a lot of living space, or a lot of good public transit options, but not really both.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#290

Post by richardknop » Sun, Jan 07, 2018, 9:10 AM UTC

forapurpose wrote: post #91

misun78 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Uber employee who has seen the company fight one battle over another for the last 4 years, he absolutely deserves most of the credit (and conversely all the blame from the fallouts). Uber formulated the following approach to get ridesharing in the hands of everyone: 1. Operate in legal grey areas to get a product infront of consumers. Build a large enough network of riders and drivers to prove the product marke…

Many businesses have 'disrupted' industries, and almost all without behaving like Uber and Kalanick. Airbnb is a simple example. Your description left out buying off politicians and breaking the law. > taxi cartels The picture of taxi owners as powerful doesn't at all match what I know. It's a shibboleth promoted by Uber.

> Many businesses have 'disrupted' industries, and almost all without behaving like Uber and Kalanick. Airbnb is a simple example.

That’s actually a bad example. Airbnb has tons of legal troubles just as Uber. In many cities it operates illegally. I have traveled around world and used Airbnb a lot and in about half the places I was told it is a grey area or straight out illegal.

Hotel lobby has been busy pushing governments to legislate against Airbnb. It’s just that sharing economy company like that is hard to fight as there is not a bunch of hotel buildings you can go and close down / inspect. It’s hundreds or thousands of either normal folk trying to make extra buck from their unused rooms or speculators buying flats just to rent them via Airbnb.

A very good parallel can be made between Uber vs entrenched taxi industry & Airbnb vs hotel industry. Both companies disrupting old industries using any gray area or straight illegality if it’s hard to enforce.