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Regarding the Em Dash

themillions.com

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Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#71

The em dash is the most beautiful punctuation mark, all the more because it is rare --- and it is best kept that way. Certainly a sentence with more than two is imparsible. In fact, more than a few in a whole article is probably getting annoying. It's like the exclamation point in that way. Once you discover the em dash, it is hard to restrain yourself. But I'm trying to come back to the comma. It does its work witho…

I take it you never went through a juvenile Kerouac phase?

METHOD No periods separating sentence-structures already arbitrarily riddled by false colons and timid usually needless commas-but the vigorous space dash separating rhetorical breathing (as jazz musician drawing breath between outblown phrases)--"measured pauses which are the essentials of our speech"--"divisions of the sounds we hear"-"time and how to note it down." (William Carlos Williams)

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http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/kerouac-spontaneou...

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edit: I kid, but those notes never left my adult mind and come to play to a lesser degree in my consideration in structuring letters, comments, and larger writings. I think the style has its place.

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#72
post #25
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Raging against double-spaces post-period was all the rage a few years back[1], so I'm sure it raises quite a few curmudgeonly hackles. [1] http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2011/01/...

I am an unapologetic curmudgeon who uses two spaces. Or rather, my right thumb does. I learned to type on an IBM Selectric, I use mostly mono-spaced fonts, and two spaces after a full stop makes perfect sense. I went thirty years between learning it and thinking about it, and then some point-and-drool twee bloggers made it unfashionable.

> Or rather, my right thumb does. I learned to type on an IBM Selectric, I use mostly mono-spaced fonts, and two spaces after a full stop makes perfect sense. I went thirty years between learning it and thinking about it, and then some point-and-drool twee bloggers made it unfashionable.

I actually learned to never use double-space-after-period for text that would be rendered directly (e.g., not by a typesetting toolchain that would replace it with a more appropriate but not available in ASCII wide space) in proportional fonts before the Web existed, and it seemed to be fairly widespread advice. This is absolutely not something that was originated by “point-and-drool twee bloggers”.

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#73

Tip: On a Mac, you can type an em-dash with shift-option-hyphen. (An en-dash is just option-hyphen.)

Follow-up tip: also on a Mac, go to System Preferences → Keyboard and check “Show keyboard and emoji viewers in menu bar”. Then, hit the icon just added to the menu bar and select “Show Keyboard Viewer”. With it open, hold down Option, Option+Shift, etc, to live-preview what will be typed.

For symbols not there, hit Control+Command+Space to open the emoji/unicode typer. Hit the icon in the upper right to switch to a view where you can add favorites, like those arrows above.

Some favorite shortcuts of mine besides the dashes:

- Option+; → … (proper ellipsis)

- Option+[ and Option+Shift+[ → “ and ” (admittedly, typing in an editor with smart quotes is better)

- Option+] and Option+Shift+] → ‘ and ’

- Option+= → ≠

- Option+Shift+= → ±

- Option+x → ≈

- Option+, → ≤

- Option+. → ≥

- Option+Shift+8 → ° (degree symbol, don’t confuse with similar characters)

- Option+p → π

I read something related to Perl 6 work that resonated: Unicode opens up a lot more possibilities than we’ve taken advantage of, we just don’t yet have the hardware to make it convenient. Keys labels as screens is a perennial idea; maybe once somebody does a great job of it, we’ll see those Option shortcuts frequently used.

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.thepunctuationguide.com/em-dash.html

Yeah? So? First, it does not say that one must not use spaces around em dashes. Second, so what if it did? This is English we're talking about. The main rule of English is that there are no rules. If you want a rule for English: it's to speak and write in such a way as to be understood -- who would fail to understand the whitespace around an em dash?! Not I. But missing whitespace around an em dash can be confusing -…

There may not be rules but there are conventions.

These conventions are rarely very strict but they do help communicate your ideas. Understanding them and understanding the impact of not using them is an important set of knowledge if you want to be clear and well understood in your writing.

It is similar to good typography in that it isn't required but that it will often make the reader enjoy or understand the work more when reading.

Obviously there have been many great writers who knew how and why they were breaking those conventions. E. E. Cummings was a notable example.

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#75
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah? So? First, it does not say that one must not use spaces around em dashes. Second, so what if it did? This is English we're talking about. The main rule of English is that there are no rules. If you want a rule for English: it's to speak and write in such a way as to be understood -- who would fail to understand the whitespace around an em dash?! Not I. But missing whitespace around an em dash can be confusing -…

There are rules to making oneself well- and easily-understood generally, and to appearing to be an educated writer to other educated people. If you care about neither of those things then sure, there are no rules.

Write like you talk, and usually you achieve both.

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#76
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's such a thing as an en-dash too: http://www.thepunctuationguide.com/en-dash.html I don't know enough about punctuation to know whether he actually meant "em" when he wrote "en" in several places, but I'm going to assume he actually meant to refer to em-dashes some places, and en-dashes others.

"you misspelled ..." is often a way to be funny. I suspect colanderman was making a point about em dashes being mo' better than en dashes.

No, the GP literally mistyped (or had autocorrected) "em" as "en" in a couple locations. Fixed now (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16089209).

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#77
The em-dash is like the AK-47: it feels good in one’s own hand, but one is distressed to find it everywhere one looks. If you find yourself wielding either often, you should stop and ask yourself: “Am I the bad guy?”

Just minutes ago I read two articles demonstrating the horror of a world awash in em-dashes, both in The New York Times [0, 1]. One may empathize with the writers, if one is so inclined: they have employed em-dashes for emphasis, to insert asides, and to lend needed structure to their sentences. But I think one should not be so sympathetic, because they’ve used 19 of the damn things (!), and every usage would arguably be improved by substituting another form of punctuation or by restructuring the sentence in a way that eliminates the need for complex punctuation entirely.

The ugliest em-dash is in the second sentence of the first article:

> A new class of security vulnerability — a variety of flaws that affect almost all major microprocessor chips, and that could enable hackers to steal information from personal computers as well as cloud computing services — was announced on Wednesday.

This is an abomination. The writer has needlessly separated the sentence’s subject and predicate by two em-dashes and 28 words in two phrases, burdening the reader with the task of untangling her mess. Did neither she nor her editor care enough about the reader to re-write the sentence trivially in a natural way? Try this:

A new class of security vulnerability was announced on Wednesday, a variety of flaws that affect almost all major microprocessor chips. The flaws could enable hackers to steal information from personal computers as well as cloud computing services.

This use of a double em-dash to insert additional information mid-sentence is almost always the wrong thing to do. Here’s another example from the second article:

> Over the next few years, hundreds of millions of dollars in American deposits flowed from Swiss banking stalwarts — institutions like Credit Suisse and Julius Baer — to Bank Frey.

I propose instead:

Over the next few years, hundreds of millions of dollars in American deposits flowed to Bank Frey from Swiss banking stalwarts like Credit Suisse and Julius Baer.

If you find yourself using em-dashes like this, pause and ask yourself why you can’t render the sentence more naturally. Most times you can, whether by restructuring the sentence, by using standard appositive phrases set off by commas, or by true parentheticals (preferably at the end of the sentence, not dividing the subject and predicate). If you can’t make that work, consider separating the information you wish to convey into two or more sentences.

Here are some more examples of what not to do. From the second article:

> And since the problem is built into the hardware — billions of chips that cannot easily be replaced — fixing this class of problems may also be prohibitively expensive.

Just replace “hardware” with the more detailed phrase and a comma: “... since the problem is built into billions of chips that cannot easily be replaced, fixing ...”

From the second article:

> She would return to the United States secretly carrying just under $10,000 in cash — the cutoff for having to make a customs declaration.

Just use a fucking comma!

Now, if you’ll give me a moment to collect myself in the face of all of this grammatical turpitude, I will say that there are two usages of the em-dash in these articles that I do think sensible. Both set off information in ways that other forms of punctuation can’t (except for the venerable parentheses), and they do so in ways that don’t interrupt the logical flow of the sentence:

> A common trick involves having the microprocessor predict what the program is about to do and start doing it before it has been asked to do it — say, fetching data from memory.

> Prosecutors said all the secrecy — the nameless debit cards, the scissored bank paperwork, the shadowy phone calls — showed Mr. Buck knew what he was doing was wrong.

TLDR: if you use em-dashes often, you might be a lazy writer with a bad editor.

———

0. “The looming digital meltdown,” https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/opinion/looming-digital-m...

1. “A Swiss banker helped Americans dodge taxes. Was it a crime?”, https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/business/stefan-buck-tax-...

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#78

I use mdash for "side thoughts", such as: It turned green—like I care. He kicked that person's butt—quite hard actually—without thinking of the repercussions.

I tend to use parentheses in the way that it appears most people are using the emdash (like in your second example).

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#79
post #73

Tip: On a Mac, you can type an em-dash with shift-option-hyphen. (An en-dash is just option-hyphen.)

Follow-up tip: also on a Mac, go to System Preferences → Keyboard and check “Show keyboard and emoji viewers in menu bar”. Then, hit the icon just added to the menu bar and select “Show Keyboard Viewer”. With it open, hold down Option, Option+Shift, etc, to live-preview what will be typed. For symbols not there, hit Control+Command+Space to open the emoji/unicode typer. Hit the icon in the upper right to switch to a…

Personally I’m a big fan of the compose key for such matters. (Both OS X and Linux.) The mnemonics I find easier to remember.

• Compose . . → …

• Compose " → “ and ”

• Compose ' → ‘ and ’

• Compose / = → ≠

• Compose + - → ±

• (couldn't figure out ≈)

• Compose • Compose > = → ≥

• Compose o o → °

• (no compose for π)

Re: Regarding the Em Dash

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two hyphens is plenty. Three is calling attention to it. One is pitiful. While we're on this subject, wide spacing between sentence-ending periods and the next sentence is the Right Way (tm). In ASCII that's two spaces. We're not animals. Let's behave accordingly.

> While we're on this subject, wide spacing between sentence-ending periods and the next sentence is the Right Way (tm). This convention started with typewriters, and typesetters (e.g. my parents) will tell you that it is only considered correct in monospace fonts. This is also why HTML takes the liberty of reducing whitespace down to a single space character unless you go out of your way to use an  .

But what of sentences that end with an abbreviation that ends in a period, like "U.S."? If it's just one space after a period, it's impossible to know that the sentence has ended? I realize in books or published articles this can be typeset in a smart way to make it distinguishable, but what about in ordinary writing?
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