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Meet the minimalists living out of a hard drive

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Meet the minimalists living out of a hard drive

#81

Post by maryrosecook »

rdouble wrote: post #56

In the past I've lived sort of like this and found it quite lonely and alienating. What the article doesn't mention is that nobody really wants to hang out with the weird guy with no stuff and no apartment. If you're single, only really strange and desperate people want to date you. I also found that the act of finding another place to stay quickly became tedious. In the past, nomads were out being nomadic with the r…

People who travel have interesting stories from their travels. They have a broad outlook and set of morals, because they have met people from diverse groups. They are social because they have had to be outgoing to make friends. They can form long term friendships because they return to places. They are romantically successful because they are appealing and meet a lot of people.

There is nothing inherent in being a traveler that makes them "weird", though they may be unusual because of their unusual life. I can't see why either having or not having stuff is relevant.

Travelers make great friends who I miss when they are not around.

Re: Meet the minimalists living out of a hard drive

#82

Post by hugh3 »

maryrosecook wrote: post #81
rdouble wrote: post #56

In the past I've lived sort of like this and found it quite lonely and alienating. What the article doesn't mention is that nobody really wants to hang out with the weird guy with no stuff and no apartment. If you're single, only really strange and desperate people want to date you. I also found that the act of finding another place to stay quickly became tedious. In the past, nomads were out being nomadic with the r…

People who travel have interesting stories from their travels. They have a broad outlook and set of morals, because they have met people from diverse groups. They are social because they have had to be outgoing to make friends. They can form long term friendships because they return to places. They are romantically successful because they are appealing and meet a lot of people. There is nothing inherent in being a tr…

People who travel have interesting stories from their travels.

I hate to sound negative, but I find that some of the worst bores are people who can't stop talking about their last journey. Having been around the world a few times myself, I often have to bite my tongue to stop myself from telling too many "that reminds me of this one time in [random city X]" stories, as people do get bored of hearing them, and they're rarely as interesting to others as they are to the people who were there.

Re: Meet the minimalists living out of a hard drive

#83

Post by elblanco »

gaius wrote: post #45
yummyfajitas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this logic, the entire economy is a "perpetual motion machine" - the only difference between the entire economy and your hypothetical is that the real economy has more moving parts.

Well, you can try this if you like. Find another programmer, and you write code for him, and he writes code for you, and neither of you sell any services to third parties, and see how long that remains viable. There's "value" being created, you're both learning new stuff (for example). But without someone to sell to, there's no money in this system, and therefore no way to get goods and services you need that can't b…

It's also a good example why an isolationist foreign policy is a bad idea on a macro economic scale. A single country, no matter how big, simply cannot make all the stuff we take for granted in the modern world.

Re: Meet the minimalists living out of a hard drive

#84

Post by sliverstorm »

Living a nomadic lifestyle can be fun, but I like knowing where I'm going to sleep. If I lived in the middle of a plains or was hiking down a trail, I know that I will be sleeping 'up ahead' or 'over there' or 'on the side of this trail'. However, in urban environments you actually have to find somewhere to sleep.

I'm also fond of my textbooks, which haven't yet been satisfactorily digitized, and my motorcycles and associated tools and parts, which haven't been successfully digitized either.

Re: Meet the minimalists living out of a hard drive

#85

Post by gaius »

jdietrich wrote: post #77
gaius wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you are completely missing my point. The fact is, if you set up a business that sells luxury goods that people spend their discretionary income on, then there have to be those people in the system. For every bohemian running a boutique B&B in rural France, there have to be 20 (say) yuppies elsewhere doing something else to pay for it as guests. Can one lawyer stay in 20 B&Bs? Or drink the production of 20 viney…

Do lodging-house owners not drink wine? Do vintners not vacation? People making luxury goods earn an income, often a very good income, and often they spend rather a lot of that income on luxury goods. It is perfectly possible to sustain an economy where the main productive output is luxury goods - it could be argued that many international cities are exactly that. You seem to be under the misapprehension that the mon…

You seem to be under the misapprehension that the money a lawyer earns in exchange for his time is "real money", whereas the money earned by a fashion designer or an organic honey grower or someone who restores vingage fixed-gear bicycles is somehow not real money.

Our friend the DJ, he has an external source of economic value - his friend's surplus (i.e. they can afford to rent more space than they need, so he can stay there). If his friends have no surplus of this kind, his model collapses. So really, his lifestyle is only possible because it is subsidized.

Our hypothetical B&B owner - there are shows about this nightly on British TV, always the same pattern - has made some money typically through selling his house in the UK at the right time, quit his job, bought a dilapidated farmhouse in rural France, done it up, and is now waiting for yuppie holidaymakers to come stay. He has no skills that are relevant in the local economy. He depends specifically and entirely on people who live the lifestyle he left behind for his business. Now I am not saying that what he does has no economic value. I am saying that to trade, you need to have a) something to trade and b) someone to trade with. The people he trades with are people with jobs in big cities who want to escape to the country. If these people have also dropped out to live an idyllic lifestyle, what demand is there from them for his service?

I dunno, think of a world where everyone's say a chicken farmer. How do they create value by trading chickens with each other?

Re: Meet the minimalists living out of a hard drive

#86

Post by BrandonM »

hugh3 wrote: post #82
maryrosecook wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who travel have interesting stories from their travels. They have a broad outlook and set of morals, because they have met people from diverse groups. They are social because they have had to be outgoing to make friends. They can form long term friendships because they return to places. They are romantically successful because they are appealing and meet a lot of people. There is nothing inherent in being a tr…

People who travel have interesting stories from their travels. I hate to sound negative, but I find that some of the worst bores are people who can't stop talking about their last journey. Having been around the world a few times myself, I often have to bite my tongue to stop myself from telling too many "that reminds me of this one time in [random city X]" stories, as people do get bored of hearing them, and they're…

That's really a shame. I have a couple really good friends with whom sharing experiences is one of the most important parts of our relationship. It took some practice at first, but focusing completely on the person telling the story[1], and actually telling meaningful stories[2] turns out to not be that hard once you get the hang of it.

[1] This means not only listening and popping in with comments and questions here and there, but actually trying to imagine the feelings you would have experienced had you been there; or even more interestingly, understanding how the storyteller felt in the context of his or her own life (this requires knowing the person rather well).

[2] The intent is really the main thing here. Some people approach storytelling about their adventures as a way to brag. The "right way" to do it is to tell the story in a way that the listeners can imagine themselves there. This changes the context from "I'm cooler than you," to "I had a great experience that I'd like to share with you."

Re: Meet the minimalists living out of a hard drive

#87

Post by kragen »

rdouble wrote: post #65
lzw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody wants to hang out with a traveller. They all have questions. People who would never dream of doing what we do, are happy to tell us their dreams about doing what we do, believe it or not. Everyone seems to find the idea romantic even if they could never do it. Back when I was traveling by myself I found it easier to meet women on the road than at home. I guess maybe you would think these women were "really…

People do want to hang out with a traveller - for an evening. There's also a difference between being a "traveller" and just being a guy with no home and no stuff. The article seemed to be more about the latter.

I think lots of my friends would be happy to have me stay with them for a week or so, and on CouchSurfing you can find lots of strangers who have that same preference.

My experience hanging out with backpackers is that they seem to get laid (by other backpackers) rather frequently. Of course, the ones who are traveling with committed partners have a lot more sex (with each other, mostly) than the ones who are just hoping to meet random promiscuous MOTAS. But there's a lot of scope for people to travel together for a few days, weeks, or months before becoming committed partners.

And sometimes travelers will stay in a city for weeks or months and meet more people.

I think it depends largely on how easily you make friends.

Re: Meet the minimalists living out of a hard drive

#88

Post by kragen »

hugh3 wrote: post #75
lzw wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is all between the ears. A positive attitude and open mind go a long way.

Not really. It sounds like this guy is staying in one city and sleeping on his friends' couches. That's not travelling, it's mooching.

It could be. But what if he cooks, cleans, fixes household appliances, teaches them to juggle, removes viruses from their computers, and gives them spectacular prints of photographs he took?

Re: Meet the minimalists living out of a hard drive

#89

Post by rapind »

rdouble wrote: post #56

In the past I've lived sort of like this and found it quite lonely and alienating. What the article doesn't mention is that nobody really wants to hang out with the weird guy with no stuff and no apartment. If you're single, only really strange and desperate people want to date you. I also found that the act of finding another place to stay quickly became tedious. In the past, nomads were out being nomadic with the r…

How long did you try it for. In my experience it can take a little while to adapt. Just like you got homesick that first time at sleepaway camp as a kid.

I did a decent amount of backpacking back in the day, and I remember the initial adjustment to be pretty tough and very lonely if you're not already a very outgoing type. Initially I hated it, then eventually I loved it, but some may not.

Re: Meet the minimalists living out of a hard drive

#90

Post by dkarl »

kragen wrote: post #88
hugh3 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. It sounds like this guy is staying in one city and sleeping on his friends' couches. That's not travelling, it's mooching.

It could be. But what if he cooks, cleans, fixes household appliances, teaches them to juggle, removes viruses from their computers, and gives them spectacular prints of photographs he took?

You don't just pay a plumber to fix your pipes; you pay him to leave afterwards.
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