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Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

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Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've not looked at them have you (the VMs)? The JVM is entirely a class-focused JVM. The CLR is a general purpose VM. I can access arbitrary memory in the CLR, but cannot on the JVM. I write as someone who has attempted to build a byte-code assembly file that would allow direct manipulation of binary arrays for the purpose of efficiently loading OpenGL vertex buffers that mix floats and ints. Cant be done in Java o…

> You've not looked at them have you (the VMs)? I've looked at them, along with about half a dozen others. > The JVM is entirely a class-focused JVM. The CLR is a general purpose VM. ... blah-blah-non-sequitur-blah ... They are both VMs with similar overall strategies, similar technologies, and some distinct similarities. They're about as different as any two VMs are. > Also, I admit I only read the first patent, but…

>They're about as different as any two VMs are.

I suggest that these differences are what makes them different as applies to patents. Patents are usually either so broad as to have prior art, or so narrow as to not apply to even "similar" implementations.

6,192,476: Too broad. Applies to any OS since the 70's. 6,125,447: as above. 5,966,702: Too specific (.NET doesnt need to optimize data it creates properly in the first place) and too broad at the same time: it simply describes data normalization. 7,426,720: Unix forks. Either way, .NET does not do this. RE38,104: Not applicable at all. .NET is always fully JITed. 6,910,205: See above. 6,061,520: Specific to JVM implementation detail.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You've not looked at them have you (the VMs)? I've looked at them, along with about half a dozen others. > The JVM is entirely a class-focused JVM. The CLR is a general purpose VM. ... blah-blah-non-sequitur-blah ... They are both VMs with similar overall strategies, similar technologies, and some distinct similarities. They're about as different as any two VMs are. > Also, I admit I only read the first patent, but…

>They're about as different as any two VMs are. I suggest that these differences are what makes them different as applies to patents. Patents are usually either so broad as to have prior art, or so narrow as to not apply to even "similar" implementations. 6,192,476: Too broad. Applies to any OS since the 70's. 6,125,447: as above. 5,966,702: Too specific (.NET doesnt need to optimize data it creates properly in the f…

Please allow me to reiterate:

> You don't understand how patent trolling works, do you? The point is to make it so expensive and painful for the innovator to continue without giving the patent troll a big slice of the pie that the innovator capitulates and pays off the troll.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#343
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to watch google... they are actually handling themselves /much better/ than I would expect them to... but I think there are solid business reasons for this. Google makes money because it uses data most of us consider private to serve up ads for us. If enough people stop trusting google, they will no longer be able to do this. Consumer trust is integral to their business. and there will always be tens…

Good points about Google. Markets must be regulated. I know of no credible market theory that thinks there should be no regulation. As far as I can tell this is just a bizarre invention of American Libertarians.

If you could write laws to regulate the search market, what laws would you write? how would you ensure this wouldn't kill the next google competitor?

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They're about as different as any two VMs are. I suggest that these differences are what makes them different as applies to patents. Patents are usually either so broad as to have prior art, or so narrow as to not apply to even "similar" implementations. 6,192,476: Too broad. Applies to any OS since the 70's. 6,125,447: as above. 5,966,702: Too specific (.NET doesnt need to optimize data it creates properly in the f…

Please allow me to reiterate: > You don't understand how patent trolling works, do you? The point is to make it so expensive and painful for the innovator to continue without giving the patent troll a big slice of the pie that the innovator capitulates and pays off the troll.

I have been responsible for patents at a tech startup. My job was not only to find patents that we might infringe upon, but to find patents that a troll could use to extort money out of us, even though they did not apply, and then assign risk. I worked with an excellent patent lawyer.

It is impossible to do anything today without infringing on somebody's bullshit patent. However, one can identify patents that can be demonstrated to be bullshit for a reasonable cost.

There is also an element of poker. If someone has a bullshit patent, but they have successfully used it, or think they can, then they risk losing that revenue if it is struck down as invalid. They do have something to lose, in addition to legal fees.

Trolls live on fear. Don't be afraid.

So back to these particular patents: They are bullshit. They are obviously bullshit. I would represent myself if hit with them. I think Google might be able to find a few people better than me to prove it.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#345
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is free though isn't it? they can have 100% of Google's Android sales in that case :)

Handsets with Android are not free.

but they aren't going after the handset manufacturers, Google can hardly hand Oracle HTCs profits if Google never sees them.
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