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Fuck you, Money

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Re: Fuck you, Money

#21

Post by arvinjoar »

I stopped reading at "wage-slave". Let's not use language that implies that working for a wage is slavery. Slavery is always forced on you, you have no choice but to work, not because you need to eat, but because the man with the whip says so. It's offensive to compare the situation of a slave and someone who earns a salary.

Slavery is force, not from nature, but from another human being, if you can't see the the distinction between adapting to our environment (sure, we have to eat) and being forced by another human being to work, or die, then sorry, I won't bother reading whatever it is you want me to read.

Re: Fuck you, Money

#22

Post by boucher »

TotlolRon wrote: post #19
scott_s wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The phrase nakedly demonstrates it's about financial freedom - the freedom from ever having to worry about money every again. It's when you don't need your paycheck that you can tell people you work with or work for to fuck off. People who depend on their paycheck can't do that.

> you can tell people you work with or work for to fuck off. As said. A disgrace.

I think you're confusing having the power to say something with having the obligation to say it.

Re: Fuck you, Money

#23

Post by hugh3 »

sosuke wrote: post #15
frossie wrote: post #6

the reality is you’re doomed if you’re even asking yourself the question. You know what I think? I think people who tell themselves ‘if I make $X million, then I’ll stop working and do what I want’ never make that $X million. I'm not sure the OP has grasped the complete psychology of FU money. Surely the value of FU money is not to allow one to stop working, it is in the emotional pay-off for the security it represen…

FU money also empowers you to work on riskier and riskier ventures without as much pressure to succeed as the first success presented. Who worked to make $X million dollars and then just stops working? You just work on different things, you never stop working all together.

Who worked to make $X million dollars and then just stops working? You just work on different things, you never stop working all together.

Actually I think there are plenty of such people out there. But you rarely hear about them, because they have no reason to publicise themselves. Surely someone must be out there, appreciating expensive luxury goods all day long?

Re: Fuck you, Money

#24

Post by scott_s »

TotlolRon wrote: post #19
scott_s wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The phrase nakedly demonstrates it's about financial freedom - the freedom from ever having to worry about money every again. It's when you don't need your paycheck that you can tell people you work with or work for to fuck off. People who depend on their paycheck can't do that.

> you can tell people you work with or work for to fuck off. As said. A disgrace.

In some circumstances - if you're being exploited - it's the appropriate response.

Re: Fuck you, Money

#25

Post by hugh3 »

dirtae wrote: post #10

"Before anything else, let’s do the numbers: money market funds yield around 4%." What? The Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund (VMMXX) is yielding about 0.13% right now, and I think that's fairly typical.

"Right now" is a weird time for US dollar assets. Take a longer-term view and 4% is reasonable.

Incidentally, my savings account in Australia is still paying 4.6%.

Re: Fuck you, Money

#28

Post by jdietrich »

frossie wrote: post #6

the reality is you’re doomed if you’re even asking yourself the question. You know what I think? I think people who tell themselves ‘if I make $X million, then I’ll stop working and do what I want’ never make that $X million. I'm not sure the OP has grasped the complete psychology of FU money. Surely the value of FU money is not to allow one to stop working, it is in the emotional pay-off for the security it represen…

In the world of high-stakes poker, it is commonly understood that the only way to make a million dollars playing poker is not to want to make a million dollars. If you care about the money, your lizard brain takes over and stops you from taking the risks you need to take. As soon as you see the chips on the table as dollar bills, you're finished. Practically the definition of greatness in poker is the ability to play the same for pennies as you would for millions - as far as the great players are concerned, it's not really money, it's just how you keep score.

I think the OP is making a similar argument about startup founders - if you're emotionally invested in the payoff, your ability to make the right decisions will be impaired. You'll choose smaller markets, less ambitious products, make safer design decisions. You think too much about making money and not enough about growing a business. I think it's no coincidence that the likes of Page and Brin and Zuckerberg never really intended to start businesses. I think it's no accident that Warren Buffett still drives an old Cadillac and lives in his old suburban house.

Re: Fuck you, Money

#29

Post by andreyf »

hugh3 wrote: post #23
sosuke wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FU money also empowers you to work on riskier and riskier ventures without as much pressure to succeed as the first success presented. Who worked to make $X million dollars and then just stops working? You just work on different things, you never stop working all together.

Who worked to make $X million dollars and then just stops working? You just work on different things, you never stop working all together. Actually I think there are plenty of such people out there. But you rarely hear about them, because they have no reason to publicise themselves. Surely someone must be out there, appreciating expensive luxury goods all day long?

There's Felix Dennis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyefDseVCZk

I'm not sure how many luxury goods he consumes, but he does write good startup poetry: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/404957/money.txt

Re: Fuck you, Money

#30

Post by binaryfinery »

arvinjoar wrote: post #21

I stopped reading at "wage-slave". Let's not use language that implies that working for a wage is slavery. Slavery is always forced on you, you have no choice but to work, not because you need to eat, but because the man with the whip says so. It's offensive to compare the situation of a slave and someone who earns a salary. Slavery is force, not from nature, but from another human being, if you can't see the the dis…

Hierarchy of needs: air, food, shelter. If you live in the USA and want food and shelter, you cannot get it without paying the man taxes. Even if you own your own land, you must pay taxes on it.

The counter argument (that one could be a homeless person), is no more useful than pointing out that a slave could choose to die: yes a hard choice, but a choice non the less.

So the creation of a tax system, whereby a person is forced to pay taxes, a percentage of which goes to the rich that hold government debt, is a system where everyone is forced to work by men with guns. That's slavery.

But you can believe that you're not a slave just because there are slaves, or have been slaves, who have even less choices than you do.

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