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Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

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Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#191
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

APFS has been nothing but pain for me. File system changes show up in Finder minutes later! I should have stayed in Sierra.

And to think that ZFS for FreeBSD had already been up and running for years...

Not on 1B devices.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#192
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Store the screen layout using serials from the EDIDs. Why it doesn’t do this and “tries” to guess their position somehow is beyond me. I use the OWC TB3 dock with dual Asus PA328qs with the latest firmware. Because of apparently some lame design decisions, in order to run dual external monitors over a single TB3 port, you need the dock, which has one DisplayPort output, then a TB3-> DisplayPort (via USB-C alt mode II…

> Store the screen layout using serials from the EDIDs What does this mean/how do you do it?

EDID is a little EEPROM inside virtually all modern monitors with a standardized format, which can be read over the display cable [1]. It essentially enables "plug and play" for monitors, as opposed to the bad old days when you needed either an .INF file to install in Windows or the supported sync ranges to type into your XFree86 configuration if you wanted anything above 640x480. It contains data like the vendor, model number, physical screen dimensions, and supported display modes. There is a field for a serial number; parent is proposing using this to identify individual monitors. However, errors in EDID are quite common, e.g. using incorrect units for the physical dimensions or leaving placeholder/OEM data for vendor and model number that don't match the finished product's advertised vendor or model number. I imagine there are a lot of monitors out there with bogus EDID serial numbers, since it isn't important for getting the display modes right.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Display_Identificatio...

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#193
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Store the screen layout using serials from the EDIDs. Why it doesn’t do this and “tries” to guess their position somehow is beyond me. I use the OWC TB3 dock with dual Asus PA328qs with the latest firmware. Because of apparently some lame design decisions, in order to run dual external monitors over a single TB3 port, you need the dock, which has one DisplayPort output, then a TB3-> DisplayPort (via USB-C alt mode II…

They do do that. It fails because the monitors have identical EDIDs. Peripheral vendors are less competent than you think.

Uuuh that shit again. Had to write code long ago that tries to set outputs to clone if one of them is a projector (on X11). Seemed simple at first since it seems to be agreed upon that projectors report a physical size of 0x0 via edid. Which makes kinda sense since you don't have a fixed image size. Until I discovered that some projectors don't because the vendor thought it would be better to report an arbitrary value. Then you got setups where there's a middle box that swallows edid or just reports other random data.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, indeed MS wouldn't break that compatibility. But the Mac way, to which you sign in when you get a Mac, isn't running 8 year old software forever. It's updating things every few years, and breaking stuff going forward, not being burdened with backwards compatibility forever. In exchange you get a more uniform and comprehensive experience, with software that adapts to new features faster.

> In exchange you get a more uniform and comprehensive experience, with software that adapts to new features faster. Do you know how old the version of Bash that ships with High Sierra is?

I know. I also know the reason (GPLv3, and companies avoiding it like the plague). I also know how to install the latest bash with brew and set it as my default shell (takes all of 30 seconds).

OS X is not about the version of bash it includes -- that's a historically hidden behind the UI tool for us geeks, not what's intended for the everyday Mac user to use (and the UI had been the priority there ever since the original Mac).

Lastly, I've used bona fide certified UNIX machines from vendors like IBM, HP and SUN that had much worse core userland -- awfully limited BSD versions of GNU tools, much older stuff, etc. So there's that too.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#195
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Store the screen layout using serials from the EDIDs What does this mean/how do you do it?

EDID is a little EEPROM inside virtually all modern monitors with a standardized format, which can be read over the display cable [1]. It essentially enables "plug and play" for monitors, as opposed to the bad old days when you needed either an .INF file to install in Windows or the supported sync ranges to type into your XFree86 configuration if you wanted anything above 640x480. It contains data like the vendor, mo…

Yes the pain working with that is real. One of the funnier instances of edid messup was when we discovered there is at least one dell screen model out there that has DEL as their vendor string. They misspelled their company name.

The usual problems were missing mode lines that were actually supported (and needed) and incorrect dimensions.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#196
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Store the screen layout using serials from the EDIDs. Why it doesn’t do this and “tries” to guess their position somehow is beyond me. I use the OWC TB3 dock with dual Asus PA328qs with the latest firmware. Because of apparently some lame design decisions, in order to run dual external monitors over a single TB3 port, you need the dock, which has one DisplayPort output, then a TB3-> DisplayPort (via USB-C alt mode II…

> For a ~$6k setup, it’s awful. It’d be awful for $1k. About 10 years ago, I had a Dell D830 running Fedora and later, early versions of Gnome shell. The dock powered the laptop and a mouse, keyboard, external drive, and two monitors. It was a single (albeit proprietary) connector, and the dock was fairly expensive (~$200 IIRC). It worked damn great, nearly every time, even with sleep States in Linux on a laptop 10 y…

[deleted]

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Was this a clean install or was it upgraded from a previous version of macOS? You do realize, don't you, that if this is a relevant question I already have cause to complain? It's been the future for some time now, give us reliable upgrades already.

You do realize, don't you, that if this is a relevant question I already have cause to complain? It's been the future for some time now, give us reliable upgrades already. Yes, it’s the future, but as I mentioned, the Mac I’m running High Sierra on is nearly 10 years-old—it shipped with a version of Snow Leopard, MacOS x 10.6. That was 7 major operating system releases ago—pretty sure nobody at Apple tested upgrading…

> If they do support older machines and can’t guarantee perfect upgrades from every version operating system they’ve ever shipped, regardless of the condition of the user’s machine and how well (or not) the machine has been maintained, they’re also wrong.

Yes, a $50 billion company that doesn't run massive amounts of automated regression tests on one of its flagship products is Wrong. Come on, Microsoft manages to support absurd levels of backwards compatibility (see the discussion upthread about upgrading from Windows 1.0 to Windows 10), what's Apple's excuse?

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#198

From the symptoms, it looks like it’s starving the computer of memory. It doesn’t look like anyone’s debugged this, so once I get back to my computer I’ll take a look and get it reported to Apple.

I can't edit anymore, so I'm going to reply: I did a bit more research on this issue and it's not actually a memory bug at all. In reality there appears to be an infinite loop in calls to task_for_pid: https://github.com/hishamhm/htop/issues/682#issuecomment-355... . I'm still not sure who's doing the wrong thing, htop or Apple, but it's clear that freezing up the system is always incorrect behavior.

Kinda sounds like an htop bug that shouldn't be able to freeze the system because, y'know, not letting any process freeze the system is part of the OS's job. Of course, it might also be an htop bug that's triggered by Darwin handing it bad data, so there could be blame to share;)

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#199
post #18
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your confidence is that low, why use MacOS at all?

Despite the flaws it still provides a more consistent experience than Linux (especially on laptops). I just wish Apple put as much love into MacOS as they do into iOS. Also there is a lot of proprietary software like the Adobe suite + Music production software that is only available on MacOS or Windows.

> more consistent experience than Linux (especially on laptops)

One one line of laptops, maybe. Run Linux on a single line of laptops that officially support it (I suggest XPS), making this an apples-apples comparison, and Darwin doesn't look as competitive anymore. Or cut the other way and look at Hackintoshes:)

> proprietary software

Yeah, this I agree with; WINE helps but sometimes you're stuck needing Darwin/NT.

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