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Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

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Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#271

Post by forapurpose »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #176
geofft wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are taxicab medallions worth it? I'm in favor of the rule of law. If I was in favor of the rule of law when it did good things and not when it did bad things (and I ready admit that the medallion system is one of the bad things), and wanted outside companies with private capital to ignore the rule of law to fix the bad things... I wouldn't be in favor of the rule of law at all. The ultimate question is who we choos…

Except medallions are goverened by rules and regulations, not so much law. Violating the medallion rule isn't breaking a law. You pay a fine. If you're good with that, then go ahead; we all pay fines of convenience from time to time (late payments, overstaying in a parking space etc). So I'm fine with rule of law, and fine with getting fined for violations of medallion regulations.

Uber violated laws well beyond medallion regulations.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#272

Post by forapurpose »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #159
forapurpose wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no evidence that the unethical behavior was necessary or even helped. > powerfully entrenched politicians (DeBlasio of NYC as an example) DeBlasio is entrenched because he was elected by a majority of his constituents. The people get to write the rules, called laws. Who voted for Kalanick? What gave him the right?

> DeBlasio is entrenched because he was elected by a majority of his constituents The majority of New Yorkers did not appear to support his views in respect of taxis. That is why Uber was able to organise a grassroots opposition. > What gave him the right? The Constitution and culture of civil society that gives the EFF “the right” to organise constituencies of grassroots support.

> The majority of New Yorkers did not appear to support his views in respect of taxis.

Under the law, which is how every modern society is governed, the mayor makes these decisions irrespective of majorities (if they exists) on particular issues; that's on purpose.

> EFF

The EFF does not violate laws and claims no right to do so. It does claim a right to organize people and speak about issues; Uber has that right too. Uber does not have the right to break laws it doesn't like.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#273

Post by forapurpose »

Fricken wrote: post #141
forapurpose wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could say people voted with their wallets. You could say it, but that's not how democracy or legitimate government and lawmaking works. And in Uber's case, the wallets voting are a few investors who subsidized the customers.

What makes a government legit? People support it. What makes Uber legit? People support it. Although I guess a government doesn't need the support of the people to maintain legitimacy, it just needs to be able to maintain a monopoly on violence. And if Uber had a monopoly on the taxi industry maybe it wouldn't need the people's support either.

> What makes a government legit? People support it.

> What makes Uber legit? People support it.

Really? Uber has the legitimacy of government? Wow.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#274

Post by forapurpose »

kamaal wrote: post #145
forapurpose wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could say people voted with their wallets. You could say it, but that's not how democracy or legitimate government and lawmaking works. And in Uber's case, the wallets voting are a few investors who subsidized the customers.

For better or worse, thats how it should work. Failure of centrally planned economies all across the globe says something. Markets don't have elections and most politicians/bureaucrats don't exactly have the competency to decide what should be good for everyone. Letting people vote with their wallets has largely worked. Of course no system is perfect, but this is as fair as it gets.

> For better or worse, thats how it should work. Failure of centrally planned economies all across the globe says something.

This issue has nothing to do with central planning. Free market theory does not support legal anarchy. It really should work that businesses can do whatever they want, irrespective of the law? Can they murder? Steal? Damage your property and life? It's absurd.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#275

Post by wand3r »

forapurpose wrote: post #118
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I bet most people would have pinned him as the next Jobs And they would have been absolutely correct. Exactly what happened to Steve Jobs.

> Exactly what happened to Steve Jobs. Jobs wasn't fired for serially violating the law, risking his company's survival, damaging its reputation (EDIT: and mistreating everyone from female employees to rape victims).

thats pretty much what he was fired for. Mistreating employees, damaging the company, it's reputation and he was caught later in his career in the wage setting scandal. So yeah, they are pretty similar.

Not sure I have heard anything about TK going after rape victims specifically, thats a new one for me.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#276

Post by wand3r »

Balgair wrote: post #246
eanzenberg wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who did Travis sexually harass?

Like, if your kids run off and stomp all over the neighbor's petunias, that's on you, the parent. Similarly, if your platoon drives a tank over and wrecks some civilian's lawn, that's on you, the lieutenant. Also, if you are a CEO/manager/whatever and your employees are just the worst to other employees, that's on you, the manager/CEO person. Did you wreck the neighbor's petunias yourself? No. But you were the respon…

> T-dawg

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#278

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

rifung wrote: post #251
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> companies should not be in the business of deciding what laws are okay or not okay to disobey. Why not? We do this everyday as individuals. A company a coherent group of people acting collectively. Laws are a high-latency side chain of authority, not the Word Of God.

> Why not? We do this everyday as individuals. A company a coherent group of people acting collectively. Because companies are concerned with profits. Even individuals should not be skirting laws for the sake of profit as that would be immoral.

What about a scenario where a company decides a law about censorship or a gagging order is not okay?

I think there's usually a lot of gray areas with regard to morality.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#279

Post by forapurpose »

wand3r wrote: post #275
forapurpose wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Exactly what happened to Steve Jobs. Jobs wasn't fired for serially violating the law, risking his company's survival, damaging its reputation (EDIT: and mistreating everyone from female employees to rape victims).

thats pretty much what he was fired for. Mistreating employees, damaging the company, it's reputation and he was caught later in his career in the wage setting scandal. So yeah, they are pretty similar. Not sure I have heard anything about TK going after rape victims specifically, thats a new one for me.

Only the words are similar, but the facts were not: Uber had a culture of sexual harassment, which is illegal; Jobs was a jerk to employees. Uber willfully violated many laws in many jurisdictions, as a policy and strategy, and even wrote and deployed software to obstruct justice; executives resigned rather than be associated with the illegality. Apple/Jobs violated the law once, colluding to not hire employees of certain competitors. These aren't really comparable.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#280

Post by forapurpose »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #257
brandonmenc wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> screwing Wozniak This is an unpopular opinion, but if it weren't for Jobs, Woz would have remained an unknown HP engineer.

> This is an unpopular opinion, but if it weren't for Jobs, Woz would have remained an unknown HP engineer I completely agree. I also think Steve Jobs was a great man. Part of his greatness was knowing which rules he could bend, which rules he could break, and deftly negotiating the aftermath.

> greatness was knowing which rules he could bend, which rules he could break, and deftly negotiating the aftermath.

Greatness isn't hurting other people, but finding ways to get things done that benefit all stakeholders, including society and community.

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