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AMD PSP: Firmware TPM Remote Code Execution via Crafted EK Certificate

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31–40 of 99 posts

Re: AMD PSP: Firmware TPM Remote Code Execution via Crafted EK Certificate

#31
post #28
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can't easily get away with several million documents in your trenchcoat. A data breach would be catastrophic for us. We lose less money this way.

Do you? Can a business that runs on pen and paper compete in 2018? Have you included lost revenue due to inefficiency?

Yes.

Want my job?

Re: AMD PSP: Firmware TPM Remote Code Execution via Crafted EK Certificate

#32
post #23

Oh, god. At this point I no longer trust ANY computer for mission-critical business at my company. We're going back to pen and paper. The extra safety makes the hassle worth it.

If you stay with a system that is as open as possible from the lowest levels of the hardware to the highest level of the software, and if you airgap, and audiogap, and RF-gap the system permanently until it ceases to exist, you are pretty fine.

Also, more practically, two computers with different ISA and underlying hardware that compute the exact same high level semantics, that don't know each other but transparently share the necessary hardware (for example hardware random number generator), talking to the world through a simple electronic checker, that stops the system if both computers don't communicate exactly the same information bit by bit, is also pretty safe, even if you use backdoored computers. Just make sure both computers don't contain identical backdoors (which is not that difficult).

High and sufficient security in computer systems is practically possible. We just don't work at it. Instead we work on JavaScript and WebAssembly and proprietary hardware and software.

Re: AMD PSP: Firmware TPM Remote Code Execution via Crafted EK Certificate

#33
post #32
post #23

Oh, god. At this point I no longer trust ANY computer for mission-critical business at my company. We're going back to pen and paper. The extra safety makes the hassle worth it.

If you stay with a system that is as open as possible from the lowest levels of the hardware to the highest level of the software, and if you airgap, and audiogap, and RF-gap the system permanently until it ceases to exist, you are pretty fine. Also, more practically, two computers with different ISA and underlying hardware that compute the exact same high level semantics, that don't know each other but transparently…

Hah so basically not at all more involved than when we still assumed modern platforms are just safe and trustworthy. Phew.

Re: AMD PSP: Firmware TPM Remote Code Execution via Crafted EK Certificate

#34
post #32
post #23

Oh, god. At this point I no longer trust ANY computer for mission-critical business at my company. We're going back to pen and paper. The extra safety makes the hassle worth it.

If you stay with a system that is as open as possible from the lowest levels of the hardware to the highest level of the software, and if you airgap, and audiogap, and RF-gap the system permanently until it ceases to exist, you are pretty fine. Also, more practically, two computers with different ISA and underlying hardware that compute the exact same high level semantics, that don't know each other but transparently…

Or just use pen and paper. It's an easier tech for Joe Dilbert and easier for them to understand how to keep it secure.

Re: AMD PSP: Firmware TPM Remote Code Execution via Crafted EK Certificate

#35
post #34
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you stay with a system that is as open as possible from the lowest levels of the hardware to the highest level of the software, and if you airgap, and audiogap, and RF-gap the system permanently until it ceases to exist, you are pretty fine. Also, more practically, two computers with different ISA and underlying hardware that compute the exact same high level semantics, that don't know each other but transparently…

Or just use pen and paper. It's an easier tech for Joe Dilbert and easier for them to understand how to keep it secure.

Honestly, not really. You'd be surprised how much valuable information people leave laying on their desks. Or loose-leaf in a backpack that is half zipped. Or in their pockets. Or on their car seat. The list goes on.

Re: AMD PSP: Firmware TPM Remote Code Execution via Crafted EK Certificate

#36
For a while, I was pretty excited about secure enclaves, as a tool before homomorphic encryption reaches practicality. If remote code execution on the PSP means broken remote attestation, that hope goes down the drain, quickly.

Maybe, the keys in the PSP are still protected by secure computing technology, like ARM TrustZone…

Re: AMD PSP: Firmware TPM Remote Code Execution via Crafted EK Certificate

#37
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just use pen and paper. It's an easier tech for Joe Dilbert and easier for them to understand how to keep it secure.

Honestly, not really. You'd be surprised how much valuable information people leave laying on their desks. Or loose-leaf in a backpack that is half zipped. Or in their pockets. Or on their car seat. The list goes on.

I am more aware than you might think, but not as worried about what can be stolen in a few hundred pages as what can be stolen in hundreds of thousands of documents.

I'm also not enthusiastic about how it's more secure from governmental snooping to mail a hard drive than it is to send its content over the Internet.

Re: AMD PSP: Firmware TPM Remote Code Execution via Crafted EK Certificate

#38
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you stay with a system that is as open as possible from the lowest levels of the hardware to the highest level of the software, and if you airgap, and audiogap, and RF-gap the system permanently until it ceases to exist, you are pretty fine. Also, more practically, two computers with different ISA and underlying hardware that compute the exact same high level semantics, that don't know each other but transparently…

Hah so basically not at all more involved than when we still assumed modern platforms are just safe and trustworthy. Phew.

At least the second part, the system of the two computers and the checker, is compared to even the very simplest parts of a modern computer laughibly simple.

Re: AMD PSP: Firmware TPM Remote Code Execution via Crafted EK Certificate

#39
post #24
post #23

Oh, god. At this point I no longer trust ANY computer for mission-critical business at my company. We're going back to pen and paper. The extra safety makes the hassle worth it.

What makes you think pen and paper is secure?

Physical security is not necessarily automatic, but it's much more straightforward than computer security. You don't have to worry about someone in Russia getting a hold of your pen and paper while you're sitting there with it in your room.

I think that anyone who has worked professionally understands that it's a miracle we make it through life with the relatively limited quantity of exposures and accidents that we have. Things like Spectre/Meltdown usually don't get the notice of people who care to expose it publicly until they've been privately theorized, discussed, and practiced in some form for many years.

Personally I believe that if Spectre had come out 10 years prior, the likely response from Linus et al would've been "How about instead of crippling useful CPU speed optimizations, we just don't let random people feed instructions to our CPUs." Obviously, with cloud computing underpinning so much critical profit/surveillance-- uh, I mean, infrastructure-- these days, that won't fly. (Meltdown is a different story since the CPU is supposed to be protecting that.)

Computers are very complex systems designed by people. Work with more than 5 people and you quickly learn how much trust is warranted in complex systems designed by people (hint: very little).

I absolutely believe that relying on the security properties of the physical world, particularly "this item cannot exist in more than one place at a time, nor can it be replicated and transmitted across the earth in under one second", is much more reliable than any computer security.

Pen and paper is the only way to go for the truly paranoid.

Re: AMD PSP: Firmware TPM Remote Code Execution via Crafted EK Certificate

#40
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think pen and paper is secure?

Physical security is not necessarily automatic, but it's much more straightforward than computer security. You don't have to worry about someone in Russia getting a hold of your pen and paper while you're sitting there with it in your room. I think that anyone who has worked professionally understands that it's a miracle we make it through life with the relatively limited quantity of exposures and accidents that we h…

I would not at all be surprised if Spectre and Meltdown were already known at nation state level, they have a lot of resources to throw at problems like this. The fact that Google provides this service for free is an amazing counterbalance to that kind of power, the bugs don't magically disappear but at least the playing field has been leveled a bit.
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