Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#201

Post by djohnston » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

EliRivers wrote: post #200

downandout wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In today’s politically correct environment, the masses are wont to instantly discredit and discard the entire career of anyone whose personal failings happen to become public. Travis spent a tiny fraction of his time being a jerk. The rest of it was spent creating one of the most impactful companies that the world has ever seen. Give credit where credit is due. ”Each of us is more than the worst thing we’ve ever done…

The rest of it was spent creating one of the most impactful companies that the world has ever seen. Are you talking about Uber? More convenient, cheaper taxis? Sure, I like that as much as the next person, but it's hardly one of the most impactful companies in history.

We’ve entered an unquantifiable mish-mash of superlatives but I’d reckon that uber, as a mainstream pioneer of the contemporary sharing economy, has had more of an impact than you’re willing to admit.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#202

Post by vertex-four » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #175

madeofpalk wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try looking outside your bubble of the US. In Australia, after the local regulator/government started fining UberX drivers for illegally operating a taxi service (rightfully so IMHO), Uber told the drivers not to worry, continue driving and they’ll pay their fines for them.

Fines are not for breaking laws, but for torts. Violating rules. People do it all the time, and its not unethical? Like paying a fee for filing taxes late. Folks in a bind do that all the time. Getting a parking ticket because you have to be by your spouse while the baby is being born. Renewing your driver's license late because you forgot/got busy.

This seems to be the relevant law for New York, as an example, found under 19-506 of the New York City Administrative Code, which was passed by the city legislature, which was given its power by the Constitution of the State of New York:

Any person, other than a person holding a driver's license issued pursuant to section 19-505 and a New York state class A, B, C or E license, neither of which is revoked or suspended, who drives or operates for hire a licensed vehicle in the city except a commuter van, shall be guilty of a violation, and upon conviction in the criminal court, shall be punished by a fine of not less than five hundred dollars nor more than one thousand dollars or imprisonment for a term not exceeding thirty days, or both such fine and imprisonment.

Obviously courts can impose fines - do you honestly think the only thing a court can do is throw someone in jail? Fines are not for torts - penalties are, and there's very strict rules around penalties (they can't be punitive and can only be used to recover costs incurred by failure to perform a contract). You have no idea what you're on about.

The process of fining you is literally a court procedure. The city official doesn't have any authority to fine you - they bring a prosecution against you in court, and provide you with the details by which you can either plead guilty in front of that court (possibly via mail or an online form) and take the sentence that the court gives you (which is most likely to be a fine unless the judge has more information), or plead not guilty and make a defense. Anything else would be a violation of due process.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#203

Post by carlivar » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 3:25 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #185

jeffdavis wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of practical challenges here because this country was already built for cars as the universal form of transport.

Over the last 50 years American exceptionalism has morphed from: "We are the greatest country on earth, unique in our ability to achieve." to "We are the most special snowflake country in the world, unique in our inability to improve healthcare, public infrastructure, or reduce deaths by firearms." It's really quite sad, I hope you guys get our of your rut soon.

Hyperloop, if it isn't just hype, is a step in the right direction.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#204

Post by EliRivers » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

djohnston wrote: post #201

EliRivers wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rest of it was spent creating one of the most impactful companies that the world has ever seen. Are you talking about Uber? More convenient, cheaper taxis? Sure, I like that as much as the next person, but it's hardly one of the most impactful companies in history.

We’ve entered an unquantifiable mish-mash of superlatives but I’d reckon that uber, as a mainstream pioneer of the contemporary sharing economy, has had more of an impact than you’re willing to admit.

To compare it with the most impactful companies that the world has ever seen, I compare it to companies that did things like, for example, pioneer electricity distribution across the US (and other countries), or turn antibiotics from an exotic, expensive lab experiment into something that could be economically manufactured in quantity. They had top tier impact. By comparison, Uber is basically invisible.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#205

Post by crdoconnor » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 3:27 PM UTC

megaman22 wrote: post #194

crdoconnor wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The centrally planned NHS achieves similar public health outcomes to the US for less than half of the cost. The excellent Cuban health system achieves the same for roughly 1/10th the cost. Which part of "double the price same product" counts largely "worked" and why do you want me to give up my cheaper system for yours?

We can discuss the efficiency of a market-based health care system when such a thing exists. The current system is as artificial and corrupted as the taxi medallion situation. If only I could walk into a health care facility and see the prices posted on the wall for various procedures, or get an estimate upfront, the way I can at any auto garage...

No true scotsman...

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#206

Post by bertil » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 3:29 PM UTC

kjksf wrote: post #17

cylinder wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if he engineered his departure so he could get away with dumping his shares?

Then he deserves an Oscar and an Emmy. All this fake fighting for control over company. He certainly had me fooled.

I’m not close enough to that action to know but I understand (from rumours) that he pretended to support a problematic successor who proved to be a dud to get the attention far from Dara, the person he actually wanted to take over.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#207

Post by TallGuyShort » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 3:29 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #185

jeffdavis wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of practical challenges here because this country was already built for cars as the universal form of transport.

Over the last 50 years American exceptionalism has morphed from: "We are the greatest country on earth, unique in our ability to achieve." to "We are the most special snowflake country in the world, unique in our inability to improve healthcare, public infrastructure, or reduce deaths by firearms." It's really quite sad, I hope you guys get our of your rut soon.

Considering actual firearm violence has actually shrunk a lot in recent decades, I feel you have just a hint of bias based on a political agenda there.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#208

Post by strgcmc » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 3:31 PM UTC

forgotpw2018 wrote: post #137

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever consider what a tremendous waste of time this competition with other frats was? Trying to determine how many people were at their parties? Are we supposed to take this seriously?

Compared to what the average college student was doing? No. It was a great use of time. We had a team, a goal, and a purpose. No stupider than being on mock trial or chess team. It's all pointless if you think about it too much, but that competition drove a ton of benefits to the school. IFC (Interfraternity counsil) ran most of the school events. Our attendance at official school functions like football games or pre…

> Of course it's not for everyone but that's not a reason to vilify it.

Knitting is not for everyone, but by choosing not to be a knitter, I'm generally not missing out on social/career advancement opportunities (e.g. I apply for a job but I'm not in a frat, I'm more qualified than the next guy, but the next guy was a frat brother of the hiring manager, so guess who wins?).

Even if I do choose to be a knitter, I'm generally not putting myself at higher risk of death, such as by being forced to drink toxic amounts of alcohol and then having my supposed "brothers" abandon me after I fall down the stairs and lie there bleeding to death.

There's a huge logical gap inside the statement, "not everyone has to like thing XYZ, q.e.d. there can be no criticism of thing XYZ".

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#209

Post by JoeAltmaier » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 3:33 PM UTC

vertex-four wrote: post #202

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fines are not for breaking laws, but for torts. Violating rules. People do it all the time, and its not unethical? Like paying a fee for filing taxes late. Folks in a bind do that all the time. Getting a parking ticket because you have to be by your spouse while the baby is being born. Renewing your driver's license late because you forgot/got busy.

This seems to be the relevant law for New York, as an example, found under 19-506 of the New York City Administrative Code, which was passed by the city legislature, which was given its power by the Constitution of the State of New York: Any person, other than a person holding a driver's license issued pursuant to section 19-505 and a New York state class A, B, C or E license, neither of which is revoked or suspended…

Right; I overstated. The difference is civil vs criminal. Often (but not in NY so I withdraw my assertion here) medallion violation is a civil matter.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#210

Post by downandout » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 3:34 PM UTC

sumeno wrote: post #198

downandout wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In today’s politically correct environment, the masses are wont to instantly discredit and discard the entire career of anyone whose personal failings happen to become public. Travis spent a tiny fraction of his time being a jerk. The rest of it was spent creating one of the most impactful companies that the world has ever seen. Give credit where credit is due. ”Each of us is more than the worst thing we’ve ever done…

Personal failings are one thing, but that hasn't been the downfall of Travis Kalanick. His professional failings have been his downfall.

I disagree. The video of him talking down to a driver seemed to be the catalyst. Once that came out, everyone that disliked Travis, stood to benefit from his dismissal, or just hated Uber, piled on with story after story. As an executive, he was aggressive and didn’t play nice with competitors or politicians seeking to limit his business and/or put their hands in its pockets. Show me someone that has built a $40+ billion business out of thin air that isn’t constantly pushing the limits like he did.

Airbnb was born out of Craigslist spam. Facebook only grew because of a contact spammer that is still in use to this day. In Facebook’s early days, Hotmail temporarily blocked Facebook invite spam and their growth instantly dropped by 90%. Uber used Greyball to avoid giving rides to those in violation of its terms of service, some of whom were undercover law enforcement personnel looking to disrupt its business.

These big businesses don’t come to fruition by accident, and the one thing they seem to have in common is that most of them broke the rules to get where they are. It may not be pleasant or politically correct, but it’s a fact of life.