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Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

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Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#41
post #7

So we're not the only: - tool-using animal - fire-using animal - language-using animal - animal which domesticates other animals - animal which builds complex structures Aha! I know! We're the only animal which continually comes up with reasons why we're special.

But the only one which does all of those.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#42
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are special though. Birds carrying burning sticks to spread fires is significantly different from humans: -Starting fires -Using fire to process food -Using fire to process raw materials into something that can be used for tools, structures etc.

Give them time; we took ours.

They've had exactly the same time we had.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#43

"Journal of Ethnobiology" "Though Aboriginal rangers and others who deal with bushfires take into account the risks posed by raptors that cause controlled burns to jump across firebreaks, official skepticism about the reality of avian fire-spreading hampers effective planning for landscape management and restoration. Via ethno-ornithological workshops and controlled field experiments with land managers, our collabora…

Yes, this story definitely has a certain WE WUZ feel to it.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, this has been a well-trod rant of mine for years. Don't forget scorpions, vampire bats, great white sharks, and the world's top 4 deadliest jellyfish!

I grew up in Darwin and lived to tell the tale. It's really very simple. Here is a diagram: [place where bad things are] [me] So long as I am not doing something dumb like going near an estuarine river filled with invisible deathbeasts, or getting into an ocean filled with transparently-tentacled murder-squigglies, or stomping through grass near logs with dozing fangjectors, I will be fine. It's just not difficult.

It's seems likely that people growing up in a place called Darwin would, in time, evolve a particular fitness to thrive.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#45
post #33
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all of them. Which animals does not communicate verbally or with gestures or similar language constructs?

Careful there with the phrasing. When we talk about animals communicating we generally mean animals using signals (e.g. to indicate the presence of a predator or a source of food). I'm not aware of any reliably documented case of animals communicating abstract concepts. There is some research with great apes that makes the rounds every now and then but the findings are dubious at best as there's a lot of conflict of…

> I'm not aware of any reliably documented case of animals communicating abstract concepts.

I guess this is difficult to prove. I'm not sure if it matches with the definition of "abstract concepts" but I was reading earlier today that Bottlenose Dolphins "transmit cultural knowledge across generations".[0] So maybe yes?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottlenose_dolphin#Tool_use_an...

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be a personal failing on my part - argument from personal incredulity as Dawkins puts it - but the idea of a bird intentionally carrying fire instead of fleeing it seems a bit odd. See also http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-03/smart-bushfire-birds/7... : > Mr Gosford said he had never actually seen a bird at a fire front, intentionally spreading the fire. > So he said he decided to appeal to people to come…

> the idea of a bird intentionally carrying fire instead of fleeing it seems a bit odd. Fire-stick farming has probably been practiced for tens of thousands of years, which gives a lot of time for birds to evolve in response. Most bushfires in the top end attract raptors as-is (especially Wedge-Tailed Eagles), because there are strong thermals to ride and lots of prey is forced to move, making it easier to hunt. > It…

Okay, that's fair - it's more likely to be true than UFOs being aliens ;)

Personally, I'd be excited for this to be true for a number of reasons:

* I'm Australian. Any advance in the understanding of how fires spread is of material benefit to me and people I care about.

* I love animals. It'd be amazing if another species used fire, and may open up whole areas of research.

* I'm Australian, which means I take a bizarre pride in our image of having the most dangerous wildlife in the world. The existence of fire-wielding raptors would turn this knob to 11 :)

But I'm afraid I'm still betting "bush legend inspired by old Aboriginal myths" on this one.

It's true that most people flee fires, but a lot of people observe them closely, these days with some very shiny equipment (including IR cameras on helis, to see thermal sources clearly through smoke).

I'm fairly (but not entirely) sure that this behaviour would have been observed already if it were true.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about: -art (cave paintings, etc) -music it's striking to see 6-12 month old infants bopping up and down to music. They're not taught to do this and I've never heard of animals responding to music...

Science? Engineering? Space travel? And we're only just getting started. Wait for climate engineering and asteroid / Lunar mining...

“[M]an had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.”

― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#48
post #7

So we're not the only: - tool-using animal - fire-using animal - language-using animal - animal which domesticates other animals - animal which builds complex structures Aha! I know! We're the only animal which continually comes up with reasons why we're special.

I guess it's a little cutesy at times but I would recommend everyone in this thread check out /r/likeus[0] for examples of these things.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/likeus/

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#49
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are special though. Birds carrying burning sticks to spread fires is significantly different from humans: -Starting fires -Using fire to process food -Using fire to process raw materials into something that can be used for tools, structures etc.

Give them time; we took ours.

I don't think all branches of evolution lead to intelligence given any finite amount of time.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#50
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Darwin and lived to tell the tale. It's really very simple. Here is a diagram: [place where bad things are] [me] So long as I am not doing something dumb like going near an estuarine river filled with invisible deathbeasts, or getting into an ocean filled with transparently-tentacled murder-squigglies, or stomping through grass near logs with dozing fangjectors, I will be fine. It's just not difficult.

It's seems likely that people growing up in a place called Darwin would, in time, evolve a particular fitness to thrive.

I love it.

Its only rival in my heart is New York.

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