Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#151

Post by bkor » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 1:14 PM UTC

natecavanaugh wrote: post #127

craigching wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. How about we improve public transport? I know it’s unpopular to propose “socialist” ideas, but public transport works elsewhere in the world, why does it have to be so horrible here? Why does someone have to profit for somet…

I would say that public transportation doesn't always work, here or elsewhere. Subways and buses usually have schedules that don't always line up with when you happen to need it. Also, there is a mental tax in having to navigate it. For instance, I really have a hard time reading subway/train maps and schedules, and God forbid I need to connect to a different line during the route. Sure, plenty of people are totally…

> Subways and buses usually have schedules that don't always line up with when you happen to need it. Also, there is a mental tax in having to navigate it.

There's no need for any difference between navigating by car in Google Maps or navigating by public transport in Google Maps.

Meaning, in Netherlands Google Maps show the estimated arrival times of everything, transfers, etc. It'll take into account delays, cancellations, service announcements, etc. All easily within Google Maps (plus a few other apps; the information is publicly available).

Traveling by bike/car/foot/public transport is all the same complexity.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#152

Post by user5994461 » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 1:14 PM UTC

jcheng wrote: post #80

wozniacki wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps someone well versed in these matters could chime in but the somewhat bigger question is whether its a good indicator even for the economy at large, since Uber's reach is quite global. Just today: One of the biggest surprises of the U.S. stock market’s relentless rally is how many individual investors have run away from it. The Dow Jones Industrial Average closed above 25000 for the first time on Thursday, pun…

I’m guessing that money was pulled out of mutual funds and put into ETFs.

Many names for the same thing: ETFs, mutual funds, index funds, trackers.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#153

Post by fernandotakai » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 1:21 PM UTC

forapurpose wrote: post #91

misun78 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Uber employee who has seen the company fight one battle over another for the last 4 years, he absolutely deserves most of the credit (and conversely all the blame from the fallouts). Uber formulated the following approach to get ridesharing in the hands of everyone: 1. Operate in legal grey areas to get a product infront of consumers. Build a large enough network of riders and drivers to prove the product marke…

Many businesses have 'disrupted' industries, and almost all without behaving like Uber and Kalanick. Airbnb is a simple example. Your description left out buying off politicians and breaking the law. > taxi cartels The picture of taxi owners as powerful doesn't at all match what I know. It's a shibboleth promoted by Uber.

> The picture of taxi owners as powerful doesn't at all match what I know. It's a shibboleth promoted by Uber.

the city where i live (a 12 million people city) taxi cartels are so powerful, the leader of one of those has dinner with the governor. he has meetings with senators. there is recording of him calling for taxi drivers within his "association" to violently attack uber drivers and nothing was done.

also, taxi medallions are so damn expensive (with some coming to the price of a house) that the owners become powerful.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#154

Post by crdoconnor » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 1:21 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #145

forapurpose wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could say people voted with their wallets. You could say it, but that's not how democracy or legitimate government and lawmaking works. And in Uber's case, the wallets voting are a few investors who subsidized the customers.

For better or worse, thats how it should work. Failure of centrally planned economies all across the globe says something. Markets don't have elections and most politicians/bureaucrats don't exactly have the competency to decide what should be good for everyone. Letting people vote with their wallets has largely worked. Of course no system is perfect, but this is as fair as it gets.

The centrally planned NHS achieves similar public health outcomes to the US for less than half of the cost.

The excellent Cuban health system achieves the same for roughly 1/10th the cost.

Which part of "double the price same product" counts largely "worked" and why do you want me to give up my cheaper system for yours?

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#155

Post by doktrin » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 1:23 PM UTC

remarkEon wrote: post #123

craigching wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> contribution to society I think it’s too early to judge Uber’s “contribution to society” when the investors are basically footing the bill for all of Uber’s customers. Let’s see Uber make a profit and it still be less costly/better service to what consumers get now and then we can talk about their contribution to society.

Making a profit isn’t a fair standard in this case. I left LA recently, but uber made social interactions in that city I’d otherwise pass on totally possible. It honestly opened up moving around LA County in a way that public transit never could. So, no, it’s not too early to judge. We’re already seeing the benefits.

I personally tend to think that I'd value ride sharing services even if prices increase to parity with traditional taxis. After all, just getting a cab in many cities is a real pain point. I also think that ride sharing services are here to stay, and that both individual consumers and society as a whole are better off for it.

However, the parents point is more general and I think you're talking past it. You can't evaluate Uber's societal contributions based on short term and possibly ephemeral benefits. For example, if ride sharing services suddenly disintegrate once VC funding dries up then they can't be said to have made a meaningful impact. Sustainability is actually crucial.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#156

Post by soneca » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 1:29 PM UTC

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #34

Happy for him. I can only imagine how much being ousted from a company he created and raised to its current level must have hurt. I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. We can debate about Uber's business practices until the cows come home, but this is undeniable.…

You imply that being ousted from the company he created is not a direct consequence of his actions.

You imply that unethical behavior was helpful to Uber defeat awful local transport lobbies in some cities and improve transportation for the people.

I strongly disagree with both assumptions. I believe he was ousted for legitimate reasons that he is 100% individually responsible for and I believe that unethical behavior at Uber did nothing to help them win the battle against local lobbies (only to win against competitors).

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#157

Post by jachee » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 1:29 PM UTC

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #97

jachee wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't allegations of sexual harassment and/or legally-questionable business practices.

> It wasn't allegations of sexual harassment The "sexual harassment" claim was for an employee (or employees), it wasn't him who sexually harassed someone. There is sexual harassment everywhere. Probably at your company too, it's just that people wanted to see Uber fail, and that's why he's become the sacred cow. I'm not saying he did a great job dealing with these issues. I'm saying a lot of the things Uber was accu…

> The "sexual harassment" claim was for an employee (or employees), it wasn't him who sexually harassed someone.

I didn't say the claims were against him specifically. But he was facing the allegations that it was happening at Uber.

There was no parallel situation with Steve.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#158

Post by geofft » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 1:37 PM UTC

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #34

Happy for him. I can only imagine how much being ousted from a company he created and raised to its current level must have hurt. I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. We can debate about Uber's business practices until the cows come home, but this is undeniable.…

> I can only imagine how much being ousted from a company he created and raised to its current level must have hurt.

The market doesn't care about the feelings of executives. He was a net liability for Uber by the end, and if he couldn't mamage to keep himself valued by the market, that's on him.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#159

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 1:39 PM UTC

forapurpose wrote: post #88

misun78 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for providing a balanced view that’s so often missing on anything Uber related on HN. There is no denying that Travis threw ethics out of the window and took his paranoia way too far and never matured into a peacetime CEO. But every time a HN user takes an Uber, Lyft, Via, Grab, Ola etc etc you can thank Travis for his ruthlessness in fighting some of the most powerfully entrenched politicians (DeBlasio of…

There's no evidence that the unethical behavior was necessary or even helped. > powerfully entrenched politicians (DeBlasio of NYC as an example) DeBlasio is entrenched because he was elected by a majority of his constituents. The people get to write the rules, called laws. Who voted for Kalanick? What gave him the right?

> DeBlasio is entrenched because he was elected by a majority of his constituents

The majority of New Yorkers did not appear to support his views in respect of taxis. That is why Uber was able to organise a grassroots opposition.

> What gave him the right?

The Constitution and culture of civil society that gives the EFF “the right” to organise constituencies of grassroots support.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#160

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 1:43 PM UTC

forapurpose wrote: post #93

remarkEon wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Jobs was, on balance, likely a horrible person and needlessly cruel. I’m still very happy he did what he did. These people are human, and are not without sin. Entrepreneur worship is weird, I agree, however I wouldn’t dismiss the additive things otherwise miserable people did for society.

Jobs is a great point, for the other argument. Jobs didn't break the law, but he disrupted multiple industries from computers to phones to music to retail.

> Jobs didn't break the law

Jobs often took an “ask for forgivenss” approach. Copying Xerox [1], screwing Wozniak [2], the naming schtick with the Beatles, et cetera.

[1] http://www.mac-history.net/computer-history/2012-03-22/apple...

[2] http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/steve-wozniak-cried-jobs-kept-atari...