Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#121

Post by forapurpose » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 5:24 AM UTC

misun78 wrote: post #109

forapurpose wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many businesses have 'disrupted' industries, and almost all without behaving like Uber and Kalanick. Airbnb is a simple example. Your description left out buying off politicians and breaking the law. > taxi cartels The picture of taxi owners as powerful doesn't at all match what I know. It's a shibboleth promoted by Uber.

> The picture of taxi owners as powerful doesn't at all match what I know. It's a shibboleth promoted by Uber. You should read this then - https://priceonomics.com/post/47636506327/the-tyranny-of-the... . You may be confusing taxi drivers with taxi companies owning and selling medallions for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Taxi drivers have traditionally been thoroughly exploited from having to either put all their…

> You may be confusing taxi drivers with taxi companies owning and selling medallions

No, I'm not. In cities I know, they are politically weak. Also, when I talk to drivers, they all would rather drive taxis where they make more money, but have little choice when Uber is taking all the business. They almost universally say Uber pays less, treats them poorly (e.g., they have to supply their own car), and leaves them powerless (Uber can change rates and increase the supply of drivers any time it wants).

> for hundreds of thousands of dollars

Is this big number supposed to be impressive? Let's not forget Uber's 40 billion dollars and lobbyists who used to advise Presidents, if we want to talk about political power. It's laughable to compare taxi companies with Uber.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#122

Post by NotSammyHagar » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 5:43 AM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #100

forapurpose wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no evidence that the unethical behavior was necessary or even helped. > powerfully entrenched politicians (DeBlasio of NYC as an example) DeBlasio is entrenched because he was elected by a majority of his constituents. The people get to write the rules, called laws. Who voted for Kalanick? What gave him the right?

>Who voted for Kalanick? What gave him the right? You could say people voted with their wallets.

>>Who voted for Kalanick? What gave him the right? >You could say people voted with their wallets.

Money should never overwhelm the will of the people. I say this even though I hated the way taxis used to work, with the artificial limitation, and I love a chance to take a much more convenient app based ride, I really despise how they got away with violating at least any standard of reasonable behavior, but also they were apparently violating the law literally - one example being paying the hackers not to hack and not telling anyone.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#123

Post by remarkEon » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 5:44 AM UTC

craigching wrote: post #102

remarkEon wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re absolutely right. And Travis needs to be criticized for that (and he is). If the question, though, is about judging a company’s contribution to society based on how morally upstanding the founder is I think the point I’m trying to make still stands.

> contribution to society I think it’s too early to judge Uber’s “contribution to society” when the investors are basically footing the bill for all of Uber’s customers. Let’s see Uber make a profit and it still be less costly/better service to what consumers get now and then we can talk about their contribution to society.

Making a profit isn’t a fair standard in this case. I left LA recently, but uber made social interactions in that city I’d otherwise pass on totally possible. It honestly opened up moving around LA County in a way that public transit never could. So, no, it’s not too early to judge. We’re already seeing the benefits.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#124

Post by remarkEon » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 5:45 AM UTC

forapurpose wrote: post #120

remarkEon wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re absolutely right. And Travis needs to be criticized for that (and he is). If the question, though, is about judging a company’s contribution to society based on how morally upstanding the founder is I think the point I’m trying to make still stands.

> If the question, though, is about judging a company’s contribution to society based on how morally upstanding the founder is ... Far more than Kalanick's behavior, it is the company's practices that are the problem. They willfully broke the law and they also mistreated many people from employees to drivers to rape victims.

I’m agreeing with you, if you can’t tell.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#125

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 6:21 AM UTC

forgotpw2018 wrote: post #42

Seems like a good time to dump this =). I think I know the kind of world Travis comes from. He was in a fraternity, and he treated it like a business like I did. When he owned a real business he applied those lessons far too liberally. Fraternities are ruthlessly competitive, going as far as planting fake pledges and building internal dossiers on all the other frats on campus. Very valuable was your loyal man with a…

Sorry to say this but I sometimes wonder if most members of fraternities who talk about them realize that literally everything they say makes fraternities sound like an absolutely terrible concept.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#126

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 6:22 AM UTC

discoursism wrote: post #65

ryandrake wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who knows nothing about fraternities: what on earth are they competing over? Are they competing over who throws the best parties?

They compete over things that seem absolutely critical in your early twenties, somewhat impressive in your late twenties, and foolish at best by your mid thirties.

I'd say they start sound foolish right about the time you finish undergrad.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#127

Post by natecavanaugh » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 6:29 AM UTC

craigching wrote: post #94

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #34

Happy for him. I can only imagine how much being ousted from a company he created and raised to its current level must have hurt. I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. We can debate about Uber's business practices until the cows come home, but this is undeniable.…

> I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. How about we improve public transport? I know it’s unpopular to propose “socialist” ideas, but public transport works elsewhere in the world, why does it have to be so horrible here? Why does someone have to profit for somet…

I would say that public transportation doesn't always work, here or elsewhere.

Subways and buses usually have schedules that don't always line up with when you happen to need it. Also, there is a mental tax in having to navigate it.

For instance, I really have a hard time reading subway/train maps and schedules, and God forbid I need to connect to a different line during the route.

Sure, plenty of people are totally comfortable navigating it, but you could make the same case to advocate the Imperial system over metric.

In those cases, Uber and the like not only provide an option that is cheaper than traditional taxis, but also a way to travel that doesn't involve wasting hours because you're visiting somewhere and ended up taking the wrong train.

I like the idea of public transport, but even the best ones are not necessarily the best option in every context.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#128

Post by msmith10101 » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 6:38 AM UTC

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #34

Happy for him. I can only imagine how much being ousted from a company he created and raised to its current level must have hurt. I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. We can debate about Uber's business practices until the cows come home, but this is undeniable.…

Two points:

1. You write as if Uber has solved the transportation problem sustainably. The end state of an Uber job is that it will pay less than minimum wage. Why? Because the barrier to entry is the same as most minimum wage jobs (assuming you have a car made in the last 10 years) and it is more desirable than minimum wage jobs (flexible hours, no boss). The pay may look better on paper, but when all the hidden costs are accounted for it will be less than minimum wage. Uber is operating in an unsustainable bubble. Sequoia and Softbank are subsidizing your trips.

2. My guess is that if your mom was raped in an Uber and one of Travis' lieutenants got (somehow, possibly by stealing/bribing - not by asking her permission) your mom's medical records to prove to himself that she really was raped (to determine Uber liability and that it wasn't staged by a competitor), then you might feel differently in your respect and admiration for Travis Kalanick.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#129

Post by rifung » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 6:39 AM UTC

raiyu wrote: post #115

rifung wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He deserves every cent of his billions of dollars. He deserves the money he made by making a company that was competitive by knowingly skirting laws? That seems like a bad precedent to set.

Yes and no. Was it operating in a gray area, yes. However, that gray area wasn't the equivalent of dumping toxic waste into a river to build some product. The gray area was around how taxis were regulated in markets. As a frequent Uber/Lyft/Taxi user in NYC I can say that the experience for the consumer has been fantastic. I never want to use a taxi again for many reasons. 1. There's very little recourse for lost ite…

> Yes and no. Was it operating in a gray area, yes.

Why is it a grey area? I don't think those laws are good but they exist. I don't believe a company's willingness to ignore laws should give them a competitive advantage because that just creates an incentive to do so.

Also, companies should not be in the business of deciding what laws are okay or not okay to disobey.

> As a frequent Uber/Lyft/Taxi user in NYC I can say that the experience for the consumer has been fantastic.

I like Lyft a lot, but I don't believe the end justifies the means. The proper way to do this would have been to change the laws first and then make the business second.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#130

Post by amazingman » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 6:45 AM UTC

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #34

Happy for him. I can only imagine how much being ousted from a company he created and raised to its current level must have hurt. I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. We can debate about Uber's business practices until the cows come home, but this is undeniable.…

I love how you completely gloss over Kalanick’s pivotal role in building one of the worst company cultures in SV, and how the tech culture at large suffered for it both in terms of PR and furthering the spread of douchebag ideology.