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How an A.I. ‘Cat-And-Mouse Game’ Generates Believable Fake Photos

nytimes.com

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Re: How an A.I. ‘Cat-And-Mouse Game’ Generates Believable Fake Photos

#41

Post by amenod »

oillio wrote: post #12

Good article and great tech. However, I don't know if I believe the results are as good as they claim. Many of the pictures look a bit off to me, like they all have dead eyes. Maybe celebrities generally look like that anyway, so it is being true to form. :) In particular, I think this guy is missing a pretty significant part of his head: https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2017/12/26/ai-faces/8e...

And the ears are not "compatible" either. Could this be the reason they prefer women's faces (with long hair which covers ears) in the article?

Re: How an A.I. ‘Cat-And-Mouse Game’ Generates Believable Fake Photos

#42

Post by ouid »

oillio wrote: post #12

Good article and great tech. However, I don't know if I believe the results are as good as they claim. Many of the pictures look a bit off to me, like they all have dead eyes. Maybe celebrities generally look like that anyway, so it is being true to form. :) In particular, I think this guy is missing a pretty significant part of his head: https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2017/12/26/ai-faces/8e...

The test of believability they give in the article is also bullshit. Both of the options are fakes, they both even look like fakes. Her hair and forehead doesn't make sense, his mouth and ears don't make sense. They don't match it up against a real picture because people's performance on that task would contradict the headline.

Re: How an A.I. ‘Cat-And-Mouse Game’ Generates Believable Fake Photos

#44

Post by fjsolwmv »

EGreg wrote: post #26

Mr. Hwang believes the technology will evolve into a kind of A.I. arms race pitting those trying to deceive against those trying to identify the deception. That's like a chess game. We have seen AlphaGo and other MCTS implementations take the "trying to detect the deception" into account. By the time the image is generated, it would have already been factored in.

Where does AlphaGo try to detect deception? What is deception in perfect information games?

Re: How an A.I. ‘Cat-And-Mouse Game’ Generates Believable Fake Photos

#45

Post by fjsolwmv »

The faces are pretty good but the ears and craniums are awful, presumably because of a dependency on neighboring pixels and getting confused by diverse backround images. Why ruin their work by including he garbage parts in the presentation/claims? And why not leart foreground and background separately, and mask them together?

Re: How an A.I. ‘Cat-And-Mouse Game’ Generates Believable Fake Photos

#47

Post by andrewla »

Grasshoppeh wrote: post #19
adventured wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And or how do you prove someone's innocence if you can generate a believable, fake, crime video. Supporting counter evidence will become that much more important.

You might be able to use this same technology to counteract this from happening. If you generate content you would have a base to test an AI to spot actual fake content. You could use video's and pictures like these to test a learning AI to spot discrepancies, then report findings in detail. Makes me wonder if there is a future in forensics for this type of technology.

This network was trained using an adversarial approach. What that means is that a second network that does exactly what you say was used to train the first.

They kept training until they created images that could reliably fool the discriminator. A more powerful discriminator would just be used to create better fakes.

Re: How an A.I. ‘Cat-And-Mouse Game’ Generates Believable Fake Photos

#48

Post by andrewla »

matrixtransform wrote: post #16
adventured wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And or how do you prove someone's innocence if you can generate a believable, fake, crime video. Supporting counter evidence will become that much more important.

There's going to need to be some kind of blockchain-style tech that allows the source and veracity of video to be determined.

A blockchain in this case would just be a timestamping service, to prove the minimum time that elapsed since the image existed. That’s only useful if the time to create a fake is significantly more than the resolution of the chain - 10 minutes for bitcoin, 15 seconds for ethereum.

But that I only makes sense if you know ahead of time that the information will be valuable, and it only proves the age if there is sufficient hash power on the network, so a “private” blockchain would not be viable.

Re: How an A.I. ‘Cat-And-Mouse Game’ Generates Believable Fake Photos

#49

Post by i_cant_speel »

eat_veggies wrote: post #9
coldcode wrote: post #5

Scary to think where this will be in 10 years. Perhaps even video evidence will be hard to believe any more. How do you convict someone if this technology is mature?

There was a post here a few days ago on amateurs (people who had never even touched python before, let alone tensorflow) who were using deep learning to generate fake celebrity porn. The results are actually pretty believable: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16040463

Is this safe to view at work?

Re: How an A.I. ‘Cat-And-Mouse Game’ Generates Believable Fake Photos

#50

Post by XOPJ »

i_cant_speel wrote: post #49
eat_veggies wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a post here a few days ago on amateurs (people who had never even touched python before, let alone tensorflow) who were using deep learning to generate fake celebrity porn. The results are actually pretty believable: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16040463

Is this safe to view at work?

Yes, first link is to a 4 day old post on HN, which links out to another SFW writeup. The title of the article (AI-assisted fake porn are being used by people on Reddit for self-completion) is worth keeping off the monitor if you don't want someone to quickly scan the word 'porn' on your monitor, but there are no NSFW photos or content.
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