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U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

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Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#141

Post by throwawayjava »

adventured wrote: post #123
throwawayjava wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few thoughts: 1. I don't think you have to disagree with vel0city to make your point. Just agree that the private prison complex is large and dangerous to society (as you apparently have) and point out that the unnecessary aspects of the public sector prison complex are also large and dangerous. 2. Any time someone can have a financial stake is something like a prison while also holding immense political power, we…

> Any time someone can have a financial stake is something like a prison while also holding immense political power, we should all be very scared and concerned. This is why there's so much well-placed concern over the private prison industry. I still don't get the hysteria-like concern over private prisons, when the extreme majority of all harm and money has related to the government prison system, which almost never…

> Hiniger makes $1 million? The total cost of 8 or 12 government cops.

You claimed that profits, not revenues, constitute "the profit motive sum" for private prison operators. But if revenue is tied to executive compensation, that's clearly not true. I didn't offer the number as a comparative, but rather as a way of refuting your claim that total revenues don't contribute to profit motive.

Aside from this point, I don't really think Hiniger's salary is relevant to this conversation.

> Peak war on drugs existed during peak government prison complex. Nobody likes to talk about that.

So are you really claiming that private prisons caused prison populations to decline? If not, what point are you trying to make by mentioning this obviously-not-causative correlation?

> rather, it's to highlight that the public system is radically larger and just as financially motivated

You'll find just as much "hysteria-like concern" here on hn, and elsewhere, about profiteering in public prisons. And yes, that includes concern over lobbying by prison guard unions.

I agree with your general point that a wave of stupid in the 80s and 90s is more to blame for our current situation than profit motive. And to get back to the article, Sessions has always been in the eye of that hurricane of stupid.

But profiteering -- by unions, by private prison suppliers, by suppliers to public prisons -- certainly helps sustain the present situation. Different people choose different subsets of that Goliath. So what?

Like I said above, I really, really don't understand the battle lines you're trying to draw here. Surely, we can all agree that the solution is putting fewer people in jails, right?

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#142

Post by dragonwriter »

mrkstu wrote: post #122
saas_co_de wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The composition of the court has changed quite a bit since then as has public opinion. Cannabis is now legal for medical use in 29 states. Many of these laws were passed through the referendum process. That is a lot of democracy to overrule from a bench in D.C.

I'm sure conservatives would put up w/cannabis in exchange for effectively overturning Roe vs Wade, which is the effect this would have precedentally.

Roe isn't based on the commerce clause, so overturning Raich's Commerce Clause application wouldn't be particularly relevant to it.

OTOH, dodging the Commerce Clause and adopting a broad 10th Amendment interpretation might affect Roe, but a 10th Amendment interpretation powerful enough to affect otherwise Constitutional federal legislation (which Roe is not) would have broad and severe effects on federal power generally, far beyond marijuana policy and Roe.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#143

Post by aphextron »

rufugee wrote: post #112

Is there an easy way to track donations from alcohol/big pharma lobbyists to the Republican party? I'm betting quite a bit of money, rather than concern for the prole's welfare, is behind this. Sessions said this in March: "I reject the idea that America will be a better place if marijuana is sold in every corner store. And I am astonished to hear people suggest that we can solve our heroin crisis by legalizing marij…

I really wouldn’t worry about it too much at this point. The cat is out of the bag; there’s waay too much legitimate money involved in the weed business now, especially in California. There are a dozen storefronts within a few miles of me right now. California, Oregon, Colorado, and Washington are recieving hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenue. On top of >60% public support for legalization, all the feds can do at this point is sit back and watch. It would be a governmental overreach not matched since the days of internment camps if they were to attempt enforcing federal law around this, not to even mention the political suicide of siding with the few people who still support prohibition.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#144

Post by zylent »

indlebe wrote: post #38
ythn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gangs will always be in business even with legal pot. Just look at cigarettes and alcohol. Both those things are legal and both those things have massive black markets to bypass the heavy regulations and taxes imposed on them.

>cigarettes and alchohol have massive black markets to bypass heavy regulations. Are you speaking on the US or worldwide? A quick search doesn't produce any reliable statistics that indicate this. I have never once heard of anyone purchasing alcohol on the black market. Cigarettes, sure, but even then it's typically only very low-income folks purchasing cheap, illegal tobacco that is generally not of great quality. T…

FWIW, as someone who currently resides in a recreationally legal state (Oregon), everyone I know who uses marijuana both medically and recreationally chooses to do so with legally purchased Marijuana. It's more convenient, safer, and typically higher quality than an non-legal state.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#145

Post by hfourm »

DanBC wrote: post #114
shams93 wrote: post #109

If you look at the fine print he's still leaving the decision to crack down to each stares attorney general but sessions is doing exactly what you would want to do is you want to see the opiate crisis get much worse. These people in DC are so stupid they don't even have the brain power of an earthworm but they want to treat us lower than dogs like we were born to be Jeff Sessions slaves. I'm so sick of these bullies.

Cannabis use isn't the solution to opioid deaths. Other countries have strict laws about cannabis, and those laws are enforced, and they don't have the problems of opioid deaths that the US has. The real solution to opioid death is adequate treatment for pain; and treating addiction as a health problem not a criminal justice problem.

"The real solution to opioid death is adequate treatment for pain"

Like.... medical marijuana?

Hard to believe you wrote those three sentences without putting two and two together.

Regardless if I partially agree with you, further criminalizing marijuana is also NOT the solution to opioid deaths.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#146

Post by [deleted] »

goalieca wrote: post #4

So much for « states rights » > Sessions, who has assailed marijuana as comparable to heroin and has blamed it for spikes in violence Pot smokers aren’t violent people because it tends to chill you out. The growers and dealers can belong to criminal organizations and cause problems. So naturally, keeping the gangs in business by keeping pot illegal is top priority.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#147

Post by Clubber »

watwut wrote: post #139
Clubber wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Now how racist did you have to be in 1986 to be too racist?! About as racist as today. If you want to see what racism really looks like (and not merely bigotry), look to the 60s and prior.

This is really racism too. Just milder then kkk.

Well yes, what Sessions was accused of doing is systemic racism, which IMO is much worse than idiots throwing around pejoratives. Granted, the systemic racism is a lot better overall than it was. I mean lynching was legal, rape was legal, assault was legal and fighting back got your mobbed or worse.

Racism is the belief that a group of people are inferior to another group of people based solely on what they look like. I mean inferior as in inferior beings or sub-human, like a dog. Historically, US racism was particularly nasty. If you are interested, there is an iTunes podcast from Yale on Reconstruction (the whole war era really). The things you hear turn your stomach.

The WW2 propaganda about the Japanese as a dumb people is a good recent example. Of course the Japanese were very fierce and brutal fighters who would rather die than surrender. That's probably not going to get enlistment up though.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#148

Post by Clubber »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #124
Clubber wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside, if you believe the Emancipation Proclamation to be legally binding, slavery was legal in the North longer than it was in the South.

That would be equivalent to an executive order, I’m not sure if you could call it a law, more like a regulation. But maybe things were a bit different back then.

It was, but the South had seceded, so they considered themselves a separate country with a separate (albeit hastily constructed) government, so executive orders don't apply to other countries. The legality of secession wasn't even decided until after the war, so it was a bunch of murky legal territory.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#149

Post by _acme »

DanBC wrote: post #114
shams93 wrote: post #109

If you look at the fine print he's still leaving the decision to crack down to each stares attorney general but sessions is doing exactly what you would want to do is you want to see the opiate crisis get much worse. These people in DC are so stupid they don't even have the brain power of an earthworm but they want to treat us lower than dogs like we were born to be Jeff Sessions slaves. I'm so sick of these bullies.

Cannabis use isn't the solution to opioid deaths. Other countries have strict laws about cannabis, and those laws are enforced, and they don't have the problems of opioid deaths that the US has. The real solution to opioid death is adequate treatment for pain; and treating addiction as a health problem not a criminal justice problem.

Very often opioids are the only adequate treatment for pain; what else would you suggest?

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#150

Post by SEJeff »

Clubber wrote: post #147
watwut wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really racism too. Just milder then kkk.

Well yes, what Sessions was accused of doing is systemic racism, which IMO is much worse than idiots throwing around pejoratives. Granted, the systemic racism is a lot better overall than it was. I mean lynching was legal, rape was legal, assault was legal and fighting back got your mobbed or worse. Racism is the belief that a group of people are inferior to another group of people based solely on what they look like…

I couldn't agree with you more if I wanted to. The internment camps were an abomination and against everything I personally believe the US was originally founded upon. May we remember our folly to never repeat it.
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