U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#131

Post by carlf79 » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 4:31 PM UTC

saas_co_de wrote: post #110

dragonwriter wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is a huge tactical blunder that will force the states' rights issue into court and either result in a victory for the states or massive public discontent about federal overthrow of popular state policies. The states already lost; this already went to the Supreme Court before Congress restricted such prosecution, and the feds won completely. What will go to court next—unless Rohrabacher-Farr fails to be renewed (…

> The states already lost precisely. which is why we need the feds to try and enforce the law again in order to relitigate it.

That's not how this works. The court operates under the rule of stare decsis which would already make this a tough hill to climb. Even more, the line of reasoning in the decision agreeing to federal restriction of in-state marijuana sales goes all the way back to the great depression and is really unlikely to be overturned in just over a decade since it was decided last time.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#132

Post by tzahola » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 4:31 PM UTC

zimpenfish wrote: post #113

tzahola wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear weapons can hurt other people. Me using drugs can only hurt me.

> Me using drugs can only hurt me. Only if you exist in isolation from the rest of the world, surely. Otherwise there's family, friends, anyone you might hurt whilst under the influence (verbally, physically, etc.), and that's ignoring the indirect effects of the drug trade.

I can hurt them being sober too.

If I'm willingly taking a mind-altering substance, then I'm 100% aware that I can be prosecuted if I were to hurt bystanders. Yet I don't see why I should be prosecuted merely for taking the substance if I take the necessary precautions to not hurt people.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#133

Post by jartelt » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 4:32 PM UTC

danschumann wrote: post #8

I think weed should be legal. I also think Sessions should enforce every law, lest he pick and choose what is illegal and what is not, thus becoming the most powerful law-maker ( or unmaker ) in the land. Passing a law is the act of the legislative, and repealing a law is too. If he does not enforce all the laws, he basically is seizing the power of congress and repealing those laws, for his term. Imagine Sessions ch…

By your logic, Sessions should be directing police officers everywhere to harshly enforce all traffic signs, to harshly enforce jay walking laws, and to go bust every small poker game for illegal gambling. Enforcing all our laws with equal effort is a massive waste of resources. Plus, we still have a lot of fairly crazy old laws on the books that no one cares to enforce. It took until 2003 for the Supreme Court to say laws against sodomy were illegal. We don't want to rely on congress to choose which laws to enforce, we want to rely on smart and empathetic prosecutors. Unfortunately Sessions does not seem very empathetic.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#134

Post by saas_co_de » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 4:32 PM UTC

mrkstu wrote: post #122

saas_co_de wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The composition of the court has changed quite a bit since then as has public opinion. Cannabis is now legal for medical use in 29 states. Many of these laws were passed through the referendum process. That is a lot of democracy to overrule from a bench in D.C.

I'm sure conservatives would put up w/cannabis in exchange for effectively overturning Roe vs Wade, which is the effect this would have precedentally.

It was all the "liberals" and the phony "originalist" Scalia who ruled for the government in Gonzales.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich

That is all B.S. though. The real issue is federal vs. state power and that has nothing to do with left and right.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#135

Post by namelost » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 4:32 PM UTC

saas_co_de wrote: post #76

ProblemFactory wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are so many laws on the books, many of them horribly outdated, and legislatures are overworked / grid locked. Often, the only way for us to have a working body of law that makes sense is for the government to simply stop enforcing the outdated ones. Normalising this is a dangerous precedent. It leads to the situation where every citizen is technically a criminal according to the letter of the law, but it's no…

> Normalising this is a dangerous precedent Not really, and even if so, we are a few centuries too late to do anything about it. Having unenforceable laws in a necessity of how the legal system works. If a law is ruled to be unconstitutional it does not magically get removed from the books. That requires legislative action, but why waste time in the legislature on something with no practical effect?

That is different, such laws are unenforceable because they have been ruled to be so by a court. The problem is with laws that are unenforced, but are still enforcable. If the situation of having unenforced laws becomes normalized, then legislatures will indeed not "waste time" removing them, and such laws will be only unenforced until some official decides they don't like you.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#136

Post by Shivetya » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 4:34 PM UTC

rufugee wrote: post #112

Is there an easy way to track donations from alcohol/big pharma lobbyists to the Republican party? I'm betting quite a bit of money, rather than concern for the prole's welfare, is behind this. Sessions said this in March: "I reject the idea that America will be a better place if marijuana is sold in every corner store. And I am astonished to hear people suggest that we can solve our heroin crisis by legalizing marij…

If you follow the donations in this sector its usually boring and more towards whomever is in power. I would concentrate more on police and sheriff PACs and those related to the prison systems; not private but public which are most covered by PACs

while I find some things to like about this Administration as a Libertarian it stops when confronted with Sessions.

then again all this opens the door to more opportunities to flip this to Congress and put pressure there. The previous Administration did not push this either, they did their typical chicken move of pretending it wasn't an issue. As in, if we don't enforce the law then that means we don't support it. Yet no effort to repeal

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#137

Post by dmix » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 4:36 PM UTC

mrkstu wrote: post #122

saas_co_de wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The composition of the court has changed quite a bit since then as has public opinion. Cannabis is now legal for medical use in 29 states. Many of these laws were passed through the referendum process. That is a lot of democracy to overrule from a bench in D.C.

I'm sure conservatives would put up w/cannabis in exchange for effectively overturning Roe vs Wade, which is the effect this would have precedentally.

Only 20% of Americans polled are against abortion entirely, it's not the powerful topic it used to be. You're right that marijuana prohibition is not a strongly supported topic either, or at least one that is met with a growing indifference. Almost no one (outside of Sessions) seems to have held strong opinions on the matter.

But regardless I highly, highly doubt this one law being overturned could be equated to states having free reign to do whatever they like, regardless of federal law. There are tons of these individual issues that are finely regulated between state and federal power balances.

Not to mention the Supreme Court doesn't work like politics where you trade one issue for going easy on another.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#138

Post by mr_spothawk » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 4:37 PM UTC

existencebox wrote: post #128

rufugee wrote: post #112

Is there an easy way to track donations from alcohol/big pharma lobbyists to the Republican party? I'm betting quite a bit of money, rather than concern for the prole's welfare, is behind this. Sessions said this in March: "I reject the idea that America will be a better place if marijuana is sold in every corner store. And I am astonished to hear people suggest that we can solve our heroin crisis by legalizing marij…

I was considering writing this on a throwaway but no, this makes me so incensed I have to speak up as myself. As a long-term, gainfully employed and rather successful engineer, marijuana was the _one_ reason I was able to get my unhealthily low body weight up to par after years of attempting other methods. I would go multiple days without eating/without an appetite, between this and my weight resulting in a multitude…

sessions isn’t talking about Med, he’s talking about Rec.

fuck him, anyway. i’m glad weed gets you feeling better. it was only ever made illegal because racism and the cotton lobby.

fuck this system. fuck these entrenched interests.

fuck you, dad! i’m smoking weed no matter what u say!

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#139

Post by watwut » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 4:37 PM UTC

Clubber wrote: post #92

SEJeff wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But remember, Jeff Sessions was denied a federal judgeship in 1986 with the reason being, "He was too racist". Now how racist did you have to be in 1986 to be too racist?! This is the same guy who in March of 1986 said he would refer to a white civil rights lawyer as (and I quote), "A disgrace to his race." He then went on to refer to the ACLU, NAACP, and National Council of Churches as communist inspired and un-amer…

>Now how racist did you have to be in 1986 to be too racist?! About as racist as today. If you want to see what racism really looks like (and not merely bigotry), look to the 60s and prior.

This is really racism too. Just milder then kkk.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#140

Post by rufugee » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 4:37 PM UTC

existencebox wrote: post #128

rufugee wrote: post #112

Is there an easy way to track donations from alcohol/big pharma lobbyists to the Republican party? I'm betting quite a bit of money, rather than concern for the prole's welfare, is behind this. Sessions said this in March: "I reject the idea that America will be a better place if marijuana is sold in every corner store. And I am astonished to hear people suggest that we can solve our heroin crisis by legalizing marij…

I was considering writing this on a throwaway but no, this makes me so incensed I have to speak up as myself. As a long-term, gainfully employed and rather successful engineer, marijuana was the _one_ reason I was able to get my unhealthily low body weight up to par after years of attempting other methods. I would go multiple days without eating/without an appetite, between this and my weight resulting in a multitude…

Congratulations on your weight maintenance...that is wonderful.

Regarding using a throwaway, I understand the impulse. It's sad that in 2018 we are judged by potential employers or peers for just saying that a plant should be legal.

Personally, I decided last year to no longer hide my feelings on the matter. I believe this fear of being judged leads many of us to do so, and sadly, it impedes progress. So, I've started telling people openly and honestly how I feel. I'm no longer afraid to say it should be legal, and I'm not afraid for my wife, my children, my family, or my peers to know.

I'm not a regular user, but I know many who are and lead happy, functional lives, including the person I mentioned in the original post.

It should be legal.