U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#61

Post by zeveb » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 3:45 PM UTC

danschumann wrote: post #8

I think weed should be legal. I also think Sessions should enforce every law, lest he pick and choose what is illegal and what is not, thus becoming the most powerful law-maker ( or unmaker ) in the land. Passing a law is the act of the legislative, and repealing a law is too. If he does not enforce all the laws, he basically is seizing the power of congress and repealing those laws, for his term. Imagine Sessions ch…

I agree regarding enforcement of every law, but I would also point out that the federal drug laws — like other laws still on the books which are not enforced — are unconstitutional, and thus that he has a responsibility given his oath of office to refrain from enforcing them.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#62

Post by Pigo » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 3:45 PM UTC

mcny wrote: post #17

danschumann wrote: post #8

I think weed should be legal. I also think Sessions should enforce every law, lest he pick and choose what is illegal and what is not, thus becoming the most powerful law-maker ( or unmaker ) in the land. Passing a law is the act of the legislative, and repealing a law is too. If he does not enforce all the laws, he basically is seizing the power of congress and repealing those laws, for his term. Imagine Sessions ch…

Why just marijuana? Why not every drug? In fact, why is possession of anything a crime? We already have laws about improper storage of hazardous materials. Possession of anything should be legal. Now distribution and sale is a trickier subject but pretty easy as well. As long as you don't misrepresent what you're selling, it should be legal as well. If we are for a small government, we have to walk the walk.

Unfortunately the loudest in this country are definitely not for small government. If it wasn't for the crooked party system, we might have a President right now that wants the government to take everything and make every decision for you. Those Trudeau wrong think laws are making their way into New York, it's just a matter of time.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#63

Post by throwawayjava » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 3:45 PM UTC

wildmusings wrote: post #29

dbingham wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately that's not how it works, at all. Especially when there are legal conflicts between the state and federal governments like this. There are so many laws on the books, many of them horribly outdated, and legislatures are overworked / grid locked. Often, the only way for us to have a working body of law that makes sense is for the government to simply stop enforcing the outdated ones. In the case of the Oba…

Yes, the government has some prosecutorial discretion, the legal limits of which are uncertain. But there is no legal ambiguity or conflict as to federal government's authority to enforce drug laws (as I originally read your post to suggest, though perhaps you have edited it?). Federal law is supreme and the Supreme Court has already ruled on this particular issue, going so far as to allow the punishment of someone w…

The fist portion of parent's post is perhaps controversial, but it's not necessarily mistaken. The scope of the executive's power to purposefully under-enforce laws is a bit of a constitutional conundrum. Even among the cases on this topic that have made it to SCOTUS, the opinions were pretty well split and no clear doctrines were handed down. Also, most historical examples of this use of executive power were not tested by the judiciary. So, the issue is murky at best.

The second portion of the parent's post is categorically not mistaken. If you've ever lived in a deep red state, you know that AGs are more than willing to spend millions of taxpayer dollars on a hope and a prayer to try and defend blatantly incorrect legal theories. Just because there's no hope of winning a court case doesn't mean that state AGs won't waste millions trying.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#64

Post by seanmcdirmid » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #52

indlebe wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>cigarettes and alchohol have massive black markets to bypass heavy regulations. Are you speaking on the US or worldwide? A quick search doesn't produce any reliable statistics that indicate this. I have never once heard of anyone purchasing alcohol on the black market. Cigarettes, sure, but even then it's typically only very low-income folks purchasing cheap, illegal tobacco that is generally not of great quality. T…

Blackmarket alcohol is not uncommon in the US. Particularly among poor white and hispanic populations. Most cultures have their equivalent of moonshine. You can easily buy illegally manufactured alcohol in every corner of Appalachia, basically all of the south, and poorer areas of every blue state including California and New York (most of NY being rural, and not particularly affluent, there's a healthy trade in ille…

It is amazing that backyard moonshine stills aren’t a meme in popular culture anymore.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#65

Post by ocdtrekkie » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #47

If I were a US Attorney trying to bring pot cases in California, Colorado, or Washington I'd be very worried about jury nullification. Maybe I'd be able to solve the problem in voir dire but I wouldn't bet on it.

Most people don't know what jury nullification is, and the courts specifically do not instruct juries on it. Hence, it is not a big concern really.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#66

Post by 0xWilliam » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

goalieca wrote: post #4

So much for « states rights » > Sessions, who has assailed marijuana as comparable to heroin and has blamed it for spikes in violence Pot smokers aren’t violent people because it tends to chill you out. The growers and dealers can belong to criminal organizations and cause problems. So naturally, keeping the gangs in business by keeping pot illegal is top priority.

So much for > with slavery

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#67

Post by hnal943 » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 3:48 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #20

danschumann wrote: post #8

I think weed should be legal. I also think Sessions should enforce every law, lest he pick and choose what is illegal and what is not, thus becoming the most powerful law-maker ( or unmaker ) in the land. Passing a law is the act of the legislative, and repealing a law is too. If he does not enforce all the laws, he basically is seizing the power of congress and repealing those laws, for his term. Imagine Sessions ch…

IMO that's the correct answer. The only reason it was flourishing was due to lack of enforcement of federal law. It needs to be addressed at the federal level or there needs to be a clear method for states to veto/nullify/ignore federal laws that they feel overreach. I can't remember the procedure, but isn't there some method for a state to nullify a federal law that it disagrees with?

No, outside of secession, there is no way for states to nullify federal law. This is why the federal government should be extremely limited in its dealings, the rest remaining with the state and local authorities.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#68

Post by aaronbrethorst » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 3:48 PM UTC

losvedir wrote: post #36

danschumann wrote: post #8

I think weed should be legal. I also think Sessions should enforce every law, lest he pick and choose what is illegal and what is not, thus becoming the most powerful law-maker ( or unmaker ) in the land. Passing a law is the act of the legislative, and repealing a law is too. If he does not enforce all the laws, he basically is seizing the power of congress and repealing those laws, for his term. Imagine Sessions ch…

I agree with you, but it's interesting to see the "worse-is-better" philosophy applied outside of tech. I would hope that most readers of HN who build systems for a living see the value in your argument of separation of concerns and clear interfaces: Congress makes laws, executive branch enforces those laws, states make their own laws within the latitude they have. That said, in life like in software, when subject to…

As a U.S. Attorney in Alabama in the 1980s, Sessions said he thought the KKK "were OK until I found out they smoked pot.”

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/12/jeff-session...

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#69

Post by karmelapple » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 3:48 PM UTC

danschumann wrote: post #8

I think weed should be legal. I also think Sessions should enforce every law, lest he pick and choose what is illegal and what is not, thus becoming the most powerful law-maker ( or unmaker ) in the land. Passing a law is the act of the legislative, and repealing a law is too. If he does not enforce all the laws, he basically is seizing the power of congress and repealing those laws, for his term. Imagine Sessions ch…

Police officers can choose whether or not to enforce a law.

Someone is driving 50 in a 35 mph zone. Police officer’s radar says it, the gun is calibrated, and it’s illegal to do that.

Police officer pulls that person over, then after a little chat, decided to let them go with a warning.

Presumably the reason for letting someone go is because they feel the penalty imposed by the law is too stiff in this case. Okay, then how about we reduce the penalty?

I guess I’ve always been confused why officers are allowed to do this, and unsure if this is wise.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#70

Post by seanmcdirmid » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 3:49 PM UTC

mmmBacon wrote: post #11

gervase wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that these are federal prosecutors, not state prosecutors; they have no incentive to respect state law over federal law. In particular, if the Justice Department intended to respect states' rights, then I suspect they wouldn't have changed these regulations. Of course, this isn't an official announcement; we can save most of the hand-wringing, moral outrage, and/or smug satisfaction (depending on your views) unt…

Actually they do have incentives to care about local and state laws because they need cooperation from local and state governments to enforce the law.

They can always enforce federal law themselves, it’s just more expensive for them. Getting into street-level marijuana dealing isn’t something the FBI or DEA have resources for.