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U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

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Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#31

Post by exabrial »

danschumann wrote: post #8

I think weed should be legal. I also think Sessions should enforce every law, lest he pick and choose what is illegal and what is not, thus becoming the most powerful law-maker ( or unmaker ) in the land. Passing a law is the act of the legislative, and repealing a law is too. If he does not enforce all the laws, he basically is seizing the power of congress and repealing those laws, for his term. Imagine Sessions ch…

As an example, Kansas tried to pass a law about firearm suppressors. If it was made in Kansas and strictly used inside Kansas, it would be legal. This ended in the unfortunate federal conviction of a few men.

http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article126014...

Selective enforcement is very terrible indeed. I have my doubts Trump will go after weed farmers, I think he might press Congress however for a solution.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#32

Post by wildmusings »

grasshopperpurp wrote: post #28
danschumann wrote: post #8

I think weed should be legal. I also think Sessions should enforce every law, lest he pick and choose what is illegal and what is not, thus becoming the most powerful law-maker ( or unmaker ) in the land. Passing a law is the act of the legislative, and repealing a law is too. If he does not enforce all the laws, he basically is seizing the power of congress and repealing those laws, for his term. Imagine Sessions ch…

You say this as if Sessions is a good-faith actor, when clearly he is not.

I keep seeing this “good-faith” buzzword everywhere lately. It seems that the current political usage is just a way to dismiss any legitimate arguments or actions made by someone who is supposed to be a villain in the narrative.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#33

Post by conductr »

goalieca wrote: post #4

So much for « states rights » > Sessions, who has assailed marijuana as comparable to heroin and has blamed it for spikes in violence Pot smokers aren’t violent people because it tends to chill you out. The growers and dealers can belong to criminal organizations and cause problems. So naturally, keeping the gangs in business by keeping pot illegal is top priority.

> Pot smokers aren’t violent people because it tends to chill you out

This is not a great argument. I'd say pot smokers aren't violent people because they are everyone as in they are average people not drug addicts, which is mostly true (in my dataless opinion). Most people don't causally or recreationally use heroin, but like alcohol, a large portion of average people do enjoy regular MJ use.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#34

Post by tphyahoo »

adventured wrote: post #19
jnagro wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Trump administration has also been tied to the private prison industry.

That's doesn't make much sense as a premise data wise. The prison boom around the war on drugs overwhelmingly involved the government prison complex, from 1980 to 2010. Clinton didn't have meaningful ties to the private prison industry (which barely existed at the time), and a frightening number of people were thrown into prison for drug crimes during his eight years. About ~95% of all people put into prison over tho…

http://www.dunwalke.com/10_Clinton_Administration.htm

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#35

Post by SEJeff »

wildmusings wrote: post #29
dbingham wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately that's not how it works, at all. Especially when there are legal conflicts between the state and federal governments like this. There are so many laws on the books, many of them horribly outdated, and legislatures are overworked / grid locked. Often, the only way for us to have a working body of law that makes sense is for the government to simply stop enforcing the outdated ones. In the case of the Oba…

Yes, the government has some prosecutorial discretion, the legal limits of which are uncertain. But there is no legal ambiguity or conflict as to federal government's authority to enforce drug laws (as I originally read your post to suggest, though perhaps you have edited it?). Federal law is supreme and the Supreme Court has already ruled on this particular issue, going so far as to allow the punishment of someone w…

Correct, and in specific, the supremacy clause of the constitution guarantees that federal law overrules state law. I don't see any state AG's having much luck suing the DoJ against this as it is clear as mud:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_Clause

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#36

Post by losvedir »

danschumann wrote: post #8

I think weed should be legal. I also think Sessions should enforce every law, lest he pick and choose what is illegal and what is not, thus becoming the most powerful law-maker ( or unmaker ) in the land. Passing a law is the act of the legislative, and repealing a law is too. If he does not enforce all the laws, he basically is seizing the power of congress and repealing those laws, for his term. Imagine Sessions ch…

I agree with you, but it's interesting to see the "worse-is-better" philosophy applied outside of tech.

I would hope that most readers of HN who build systems for a living see the value in your argument of separation of concerns and clear interfaces: Congress makes laws, executive branch enforces those laws, states make their own laws within the latitude they have.

That said, in life like in software, when subject to resource constraints and a deadline, it's so much easier to just slap in some hardcoded conditions or let this module take on a little more responsibility than it should. I think that's what happened here in the Obama era, and like C, we had a pretty good outcome from it. But again, like C, if we let it fester too long it can cause no end of pain down the road.

So I'm actually happy with this outcome - Obama hacked in a proof of concept that seems to be working, and Sessions (though perhaps not his intention) is tackling the tech debt. I don't see this going any way but marijuana being legalized federally down the road.

(All that said, the current "system" is not great in terms of separation of concerns. It's my understanding that Congress didn't say marijuana should be illegal, but the DEA, right? The DEA should totally have no say over it.)

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#37

Post by knieveltech »

kylejamzz wrote: post #16

Sessions has clearly never had a session.

Given the frequency with which old guard Republican politicians get caught soliciting liaisons in public mens rooms while openly supporting legislation that discriminates against the LGBTQ+ community I'd drug test Sessions before I made any assumptions about his use habits.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#38

Post by indlebe »

ythn wrote: post #13
goalieca wrote: post #4

So much for « states rights » > Sessions, who has assailed marijuana as comparable to heroin and has blamed it for spikes in violence Pot smokers aren’t violent people because it tends to chill you out. The growers and dealers can belong to criminal organizations and cause problems. So naturally, keeping the gangs in business by keeping pot illegal is top priority.

Gangs will always be in business even with legal pot. Just look at cigarettes and alcohol. Both those things are legal and both those things have massive black markets to bypass the heavy regulations and taxes imposed on them.

>cigarettes and alchohol have massive black markets to bypass heavy regulations.

Are you speaking on the US or worldwide? A quick search doesn't produce any reliable statistics that indicate this. I have never once heard of anyone purchasing alcohol on the black market. Cigarettes, sure, but even then it's typically only very low-income folks purchasing cheap, illegal tobacco that is generally not of great quality. This is in stark contrast to marijuana where high-grade product can be purchased on the "street".

I suspect that once(if) pot goes legal the black-market will consist mostly of cheap, poor quality marijuana. This should take a nice chunk out of the profits that gangs see from marijuana distribution.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#39

Post by btbuildem »

bediger4000 wrote: post #30

Why? What harm can the Feds point to, with respect to legal marijuana? It's been mostly good in Colorado. Sales tax on marijuana has offset some budget problems citizens of Colorado inflicted on themselves (TABOR). Apparently, crime in Colorado isn't uniformly rising: most categories of crime are less common since legalization, a few have risen a bit. This is in line with a secular drop in crime in all of th USA, how…

It harms the pharmaceutical industry, the private prisons and police budgets, to name a few examples.

Re: U.S. To End Policy That Let Legal Pot Flourish

#40

Post by SEJeff »

brightball wrote: post #20
danschumann wrote: post #8

I think weed should be legal. I also think Sessions should enforce every law, lest he pick and choose what is illegal and what is not, thus becoming the most powerful law-maker ( or unmaker ) in the land. Passing a law is the act of the legislative, and repealing a law is too. If he does not enforce all the laws, he basically is seizing the power of congress and repealing those laws, for his term. Imagine Sessions ch…

IMO that's the correct answer. The only reason it was flourishing was due to lack of enforcement of federal law. It needs to be addressed at the federal level or there needs to be a clear method for states to veto/nullify/ignore federal laws that they feel overreach. I can't remember the procedure, but isn't there some method for a state to nullify a federal law that it disagrees with?

Yes, the 2nd Amendment, however that tends to not work so well.
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